Atheists

[wondering]

I'm not trying to personally attack any atheists here in animea so don't take this personally. I don't get it. If an atheist believes that when he/she dies, they'll only be six feet under, then why don't they just pick a religion? I am not endorsing any particular religion in any shape, form, or manner. I'm just saying, pick a religion and follow it. If the religious people were right, and you picked the "right religion" then congratulations, you're in heaven. If the religious people were wrong all along, then you're still six feet under like you originally thought. What have you got to lose? Anyone know what I mean?

[mercer_sensei]

Yeah, I had a discussion with my chemistry professor one day. He was saying that there are three possibilities about religion:
1. There is a god, and you believe in him, then you go to heaven
2. There is a god, and you dont believe in him, then you go to hell
3. There is no god, and nothing happensIn that case, what do you have to lose from believing in god, whichever god you choose to believe in, I personally they all stem from the same "god" but thats a different discussion, so if you simply believe, the best case scenario is that you go to heaven, worst case, nothing happens. If you dont believe, the best case scenario is that nothing happens and the worse is that you go to hell. I would see how believing in something would be a good thing. I dont see how not believing in anything could be a good thing.

[Barzillal]

Yeah, I had a discussion with my chemistry professor one day. He was saying that there are three possibilities about religion:
1. There is a god, and you believe in him, then you go to heaven
2. There is a god, and you dont believe in him, then you go to hell
3. There is no god, and nothing happensIn that case, what do you have to lose from believing in god, whichever god you choose to believe in, I personally they all stem from the same "god" but thats a different discussion, so if you simply believe, the best case scenario is that you go to heaven, worst case, nothing happens. If you dont believe, the best case scenario is that nothing happens and the worse is that you go to hell. I would see how believing in something would be a good thing. I dont see how not believing in anything could be a good thing.

Man those are three good points nicely put

[xfuturax]

I'm not trying to personally attack any atheists here in animea so don't take this personally. I don't get it. If an atheist believes that when he/she dies, they'll only be six feet under, then why don't they just pick a religion? I am not endorsing any particular religion in any shape, form, or manner. I'm just saying, pick a religion and follow it. If the religious people were right, and you picked the "right religion" then congratulations, you're in heaven. If the religious people were wrong all along, then you're still six feet under like you originally thought. What have you got to lose? Anyone know what I mean?

that the thing....atheist don't believe in heaven(ex. believe in god go to heaven) or anything like that so why bother? and if they choose a religion then you wouldn't call them atheist.

[skullreken]

that the thing....atheist don't believe in heaven(ex. believe in god go to heaven) or anything like that so why bother? and if they choose a religion then you wouldn't call them atheist.
my thoughts exactly whats the point in paying lip service to something you don't believe in
I could understand if you lived in a country where you would be persecuted or killed for not believing (it does still happen in this day and age)
But if your are a true Atheist you believe in nothing so if you choose a random religion and follow it you admit there is a possibility that a higher power exists and therefore you are not an atheist

[overfiend1976]

I'm not trying to personally attack any atheists here in animea so don't take this personally. I don't get it. If an atheist believes that when he/she dies, they'll only be six feet under, then why don't they just pick a religion? I am not endorsing any particular religion in any shape, form, or manner. I'm just saying, pick a religion and follow it. If the religious people were right, and you picked the "right religion" then congratulations, you're in heaven. If the religious people were wrong all along, then you're still six feet under like you originally thought. What have you got to lose? Anyone know what I mean?


Uh, because I have no time in my life to waste believing in fairy tales? I'm sorry, I stopped believing in crap like that when I was 5 and knew without question that Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy and all the rest were total marketing ploys.

PRO TIP: That's all religion is, is a marketing ploy.

How else is religion going to survive and make money and influence peoples lives and politics if they don't weigh in on folks irrational fears of the unknown? Give me a freakin' break.

Heaven? Yeah, take the Alpha Centuri exit, take a left and go 42 parsecs. It'll be the 14th quadrant on your right. Hell? Yeah, that's a lot easier to get to. It's in New Jersey.

[Tankjan]

But if your are a true Atheist you believe in nothing

If you're a true atheist than you don't believe in God [or other religion-connected things]. But it doesn't mean you don't believe in anything. I'm an atheist, but still believe: in human mind, science, people. I don't need God to be a believer. I don't know, maybe the word 'believe' isn't proper, but for me it's the best I can use at this moment.

I'm not buying so called Pascal's Bet. Chosing some religion just to follow it and to avoid hell in future? Hell is here, in each place that are wars and acts of genocide. We create hell, not guys with tails and horns.

And simple following the directives of some religion's big guys? For me it'd be empty. Empty gestures, empty words. There's nothing inside, cuz I don't feel it.

And if in the end I will find out that there's more than hole six feet under? Well, I've always liked surprises.

[dingchavez]

I'm not trying to personally attack any atheists here in animea so don't take this personally. I don't get it. If an atheist believes that when he/she dies, they'll only be six feet under, then why don't they just pick a religion? I am not endorsing any particular religion in any shape, form, or manner. I'm just saying, pick a religion and follow it. If the religious people were right, and you picked the "right religion" then congratulations, you're in heaven. If the religious people were wrong all along, then you're still six feet under like you originally thought. What have you got to lose? Anyone know what I mean?

Atheists don't consider the possibility that they might go to heaven or hell. It doesn't factor into their mindframe. Doing what you describe is like telling them to believe in the force and they might become Jedi. Is that really going to sway them to wear Jedi cosplay and search around the world for lightsaber crystals for absolutely nothing?

[engr-erizu]

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeee…..

we believe ... our faith lies .... in the religion .... of COMMON SENSE ....

1.The more INTELIGENT a person is, the further he is from the kingdom of god ......
2.a CAMEL has a greater chance of going through the eye of a needle, than a RICH man going to heaven.
3.if you truly wish to follow me then give away all your belongings and your riches ....

Dumb People .... uhhhhhh ...... ahhhhhhhh
Atheist...... WTF ... this stuff is so freakin hilarious ...

moral ... don’t go to MED school The world is ending anyway .... relinquish all your riches and sing praises with us, and when the great space-ship arrives for us, we will pity those Left behind.. .

confused ..... one upon a time my math teacher said, that if you are confused with something all you need to do is EXAGERRATE them to the positive and negative billions, and things would be as clear as daylight.

something else .... We fall out of faith because we are TAUGHT LIES from the start and we believe FULL HEARTHLY this B-S ... and when the TRUTH came smacking us right in the face we start to question this B-S .... and when this B-S is challenged we are disillusioned ... and eventually we get fed up and ABANDON the entire faith including the Good parts.

[Sanouske]

I really don't agree with just picking a religion just to have one. >_> This is my train of thought, I do believe that there are some powers out there that we can't really explain or account for, but I do not believe in an 'all powerful' being (god) existing or any other god for that matter. Everything has limits. I am sure you have all herd this before, If god is all powerful can god create somthing so heavy that he/she is not able to lift it? Anyways, I just don't feel like following somthing I don't believe in. If there is a god he/she should want eveyone to live happily and not have being a religion follower be a requirment for getting into heaven. The deciding factor should be how you live your life. Heaven is supposed to be for 'good' people who loved and cared for others right? Anyways, that is my two cents.

[mercer_sensei]

I really don't agree with just picking a religion just to have one. >_> This is my train of thought, I do believe that there are some powers out there that we can't really explain or account for, but I do not believe in an 'all powerful' being (god) existing or any other god for that matter. Everything has limits. I am sure you have all herd this before, If god is all powerful can god create somthing so heavy that he/she is not able to lift it? Anyways, I just don't feel like following somthing I don't believe in. If there is a god he/she should want eveyone to live happily and not have being a religion follower be a requirment for getting into heaven. The deciding factor should be how you live your life. Heaven is supposed to be for 'good' people who loved and cared for others right? Anyways, that is my two cents.

I agree sanouske, I dont believe that randomly picking and believing in a religion is a good choice at all. I do believe. I think thats the most important thing, there is something out there, what it is Im not sure, but there is something out there. Belief in something, rather than belief in nothing.

[skullreken]

Uh, because I have no time in my life to waste believing in fairy tales? I'm sorry, I stopped believing in crap like that when I was 5 and knew without question that Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy and all the rest were total marketing ploys.

PRO TIP: That's all religion is, is a marketing ploy.

How else is religion going to survive and make money and influence peoples lives and politics if they don't weigh in on folks irrational fears of the unknown? Give me a freakin' break.

Heaven? Yeah, take the Alpha Centuri exit, take a left and go 42 parsecs. It'll be the 14th quadrant on your right. Hell? Yeah, that's a lot easier to get to. It's in New Jersey.
Thats just total ignorance! Why dont you rephrase that mate?
Some of us who have posted here have religious beliefs
we have respected your views and opinions as an Atheist by defending your right not to believe in religion or to be subjected to religion
so pay us the same courtesy by not attacking our faiths and creeds

[whiteday26]

I consider myself to be an atheist (seems I wouldn't be a true atheist according to skullreken), I do believe in some kind of supernatural force that might be controlling something -.-, but officially, I don't believe in any religion, nor do I go to any religious gatherings/ church services/ temples/ rituals etc for religious reasons. (Maybe I should make my own religion, but then, I have no super powers.)

I do believe there might be an after life, whether it is divided to hell and heaven, I don't care, yet. (Personally, if there was hell and heaven and someone you wanted to see in heaven went to hell, it wouldn't be heaven. -.-) I stand neutral against atheist and religious people.

Having no religion wouldn't mean instant ticket to hell, if there was a some kind of god. If someone who had been living life in a part of the world where the religious message of a particular god hasn't been reached, had been told to change religion at the age of 80 or something. I really doubt he would, and moreover if he was a good man, well respected and was generous to others blah blah blah. Would a god worth believing in, send him to hell, just because he didn't believe in him?

On the other case, a religious fanatic doing something illegal (and causing harm to others (like Witch Hunting of Medieval age, chopping off hands of a bread thief on the spot)) just because the rule that their god has permitted to do so, would go to heaven despite the other people's life being ruined?

If something like god existed, he should be sensible enough to sort out the good from the bad without having to get people to believe in them.
This is why I don't have a religion. Living my life peacefully and harmonically is more important than choosing the right god to believe in.

...and I can't be bothered to wake up in Sunday morning to attend any religious services. :P Need my beauty sleep~

[Barzillal]

I believe and follow a denamination of faith
I am not as fervent as what is required but im quite steadfast on the belief of a higher power that is unexplainable by science and reason. I do not have against Atheist, nor anyone of those sort. They have their belief and they have their reason not following a certain religion. I myself would say that the faith I participate is filled with immorality that contradicts to the teachings and doctrines of the faith, but to generalize everyone in that religion isnt good at all lol =P
as whiteday said, a person who doesnt belong to a certain circle of faith does not guarantee a ticket to hell lol, if God, Allah, Buddha etc will be sensible enough to pick those bad seeds to the good ones.
@skull lol yes well I could say it is a little ignorant to call religion a markeeting ploy

[overfiend1976]

Thats just total ignorance! Why dont you rephrase that mate?
Some of us who have posted here have religious beliefs
we have respected your views and opinions as an Atheist by defending your right not to believe in religion or to be subjected to religion
so pay us the same courtesy by not attacking our faiths and creeds

I was speaking in general terms, not to individuals. Like I say, people can believe whatever they want, as long as they don't push me into having to believe it. And frankly, I DO NOT like the tactics utilized by religion today, be it Catholic, Protestant, Islam or whatnot. They've all become far too much about 'strong arming' folks into doing shit. And I get to say so because I spent 5 years in Catholic school :P

[Cinder_Bird]

Okay,
Despite being an atheist in America, where I am persecuted (though very subtly, in social-psychological methods) I'm going to ignore the venom I suspect I have the right to issue, and just give it to you guys staight and scientifically. Here is the rational breakdown for all of you:
Agnostics are those who are inherently monotheist (single, anthropomorphized (human-looking) god), but do not ascribe to a specific church, that is an organization is not necessary to them in their personal form of worship. A great many Christians are actually under this category, but because most people inherit their religious beliefs from their parents, they still align themselves with organized churches out of social pressure.
Deists are those who believe in a higher power of some sort, though it has no form or intentions that people can really understand or relate to. It is generally seen as being benign or nuetral in its affect on humanity, since deism follows that the universe has itself a plan, and that humans are a part of it, not the center of it.
True atheists are those who, quite simply, only believe in those things they can see, and prove are physically real within their perception. "It is only 'true' if it can be proven to a satisfactory degree", is the core of atheism.
Here is the kicker for all of you, besides environmental factors - inheriting religion from parents and peers - religion is also genetic; different people inherit different genes that actually affect how likely they are to be religious, as these genes determine their 'incredulousness' (sorry about spelling), and how likely they are to believe something without evidence. So, even after outside factors like traumas and personal revelations are factored in, there is still a deep, biological level that does much to determine whether someone can be influenced by religion.

So, just keeps these things in mind when discussing this issue guys.

- The Bird

[Riser]

I'm not trying to personally attack any atheists here in animea so don't take this personally. I don't get it. If an atheist believes that when he/she dies, they'll only be six feet under, then why don't they just pick a religion? I am not endorsing any particular religion in any shape, form, or manner. I'm just saying, pick a religion and follow it. If the religious people were right, and you picked the "right religion" then congratulations, you're in heaven. If the religious people were wrong all along, then you're still six feet under like you originally thought. What have you got to lose? Anyone know what I mean?

One thing I think should be pointed out if they don't believe in a religion , and still follow it. Then wouldn't the result be the same, as far as i know religion is about believing if you don't, and still go to church you wouldn't you still go to hell (i don't really know anything about religion so sorry if thats wrong) and then theres that whole thing of working for something you don't think is real. (whole thing might still works if your not sure about religion)

[kami]

I, like many people here, am also an atheist. It seems to me that religion is the human way of explaining things that we cannot understand. We don't really know how we came to be, who we are, why we're here, and how the universe came to be. We don't know why life exists. Religion is many people's way of dealing with not being able to understand these questions and wanting answers.

For an atheist believing in religion is like believing in magic: it just isn't possible. It defies all laws of everything we believe in and is out of our comprehension.

I also think that religion brings a lot of people happiness and comfort. It makes their lives simpler in a way, because the major questions of the universe are answered for them. Religion puts them at ease and give them motivation to do good in life. In this sense it really does benefit society. It can also be a social gathering, and gives more meaning to people's lives.

[crystalgazer]

I'm not an athiest (though I don't really consider myself a follower of any religion - I'm probably more a deist than anything else) but I do have a lot of respect for the athiest mindset, such as it is; not believing in heaven or hell makes you realise that this world and this time is all you have, and you should make the best of it and be good to others and yourself not because you're scared of a vengeful deity that will torture you for your sins after you die, but because it's simply the right thing to do, and our own common sense and consciences should be more than sufficient for us to tell the difference between right and wrong. I've met athiests that are some of the most spiritual people I know, who believe in the inherent goodness of mankind and become more in awe of how wonderful the universe is the more they learn about it through science.

To me, this view of the world doesn't get nearly enough respect, and most people seem to think that if you have a creed, any creed, you're somehow more moral than those who simply want to discover the truth for themselves. And asking 'I don't get why athiests wouldn't just believe in something to save themselves' is proof of that, as is the common line that 'athiests believe in nothing'. As people have said here, they believe in a lot of things; in mankind, in the science that keeps the universe moving, in this world. Is that really worse or less easy to understand than having faith in any given religion?

And personally, the God that I believe in is not petty enough to exclude good people from heaven, if there is one, just because they didn't believe in Him. I think He's too busy keeping a thousand billion galaxies in working order to worry about things like that. :)

[kami]

Here is the kicker for all of you, besides environmental factors - inheriting religion from parents and peers - religion is also genetic; different people inherit different genes that actually affect how likely they are to be religious, as these genes determine their 'incredulousness' (sorry about spelling), and how likely they are to believe something without evidence. So, even after outside factors like traumas and personal revelations are factored in, there is still a deep, biological level that does much to determine whether someone can be influenced by religion.

I have a bit of a problem with this. I don't see how people could possibly know if certain genes influence someone's ability to believe in religion. I would suspect the reason that most people who have parents who are religious are religion because their parents taught them to be that way. It is the nature vs. nurture thing, and I think nurture logically makes much more sense than nature. Children are greatly influenced by their parents, and if they're parents teach them from birth that God exists then they are considerably more likely to believe.

[Cinder_Bird]

I have a bit of a problem with this. I don't see how people could possibly know if certain genes influence someone's ability to believe in religion. I would suspect the reason that most people who have parents who are religious are religion because their parents taught them to be that way. It is the nature vs. nurture thing, and I think nurture logically makes much more sense than nature. Children are greatly influenced by their parents, and if they're parents teach them from birth that God exists then they are considerably more likely to believe.

This misunderstanding is probably my fault, let me clarify:
Of course nurture has plenty to do with it, you would have to be very backwards to believe that only nature or nurture affects a person, all evidence shows that they work in tandem to shape people as they are.
What I was refering to was what social-psychologists call the "suggestability (poor spelling) factor"; that is, that some people are predisposed to more easily accept OUTSIDE influence while others, having fewer of these specific genes (and no one is really sure yet how many are a part of this character trait, it could easily be dozens or hundreds) are more skeptical towards ideas presented by outsiders and more likely to believe in SELF-established ideas.
Please don't misunderstand, everything about evolutionary psycology and biology tells us that nature and nurture provide equal sources of structuring for people - though there is of course variation of influence on the individual scale.

- The Bird

[Cobras2]

Okay, sorry if anyone takes offense at this, but I think it's hilarious and it seems appropriate to the topic at hand:

An atheist decides that atheists ought to have a holiday to themselves, and the government
really should have come up with one by now. Since they haven't, he launches a lawsuit
against the government to have an atheist holiday declared.
The man shows up in court, makes an impassioned speech, and afterwards, the judge asks,
"are you finished, young man?"
The man nods. "Yes, your Honour, I rest my case."
The judge, who happens to be a Christian, says, "well, guess what? Atheists already have a
holiday."
The atheist looks entirely at a loss for words.
"April 1st," says the judge.
The atheist still looks confused. "April fool's day? How is that an atheist holiday?"
"Why," says the judge, "haven't you ever read the Bible? Psalm 14:1 says, 'The fool hath said
in his heart, there is no God!'"


(P.S. to any wet blankets, I already know that the word holiday actually literally means 'holy
day', and that since atheists don't believe in any deity, it's a bit odd to think they would even
want a 'holy day'. Quit quibbling. It's funny. Just laugh ^.^)



(Sorry, I know I'm kind of skipping around in my replies here, but I just saw a few interesting
things I thought were worth replies, so here goes...)
(Added later: wow, this sucks. How do you get the thing to just post your post without taking
out all the newlines? I'm adding manual BR tags which seems to work, but.. we'll see..)

> Please don't misunderstand, everything about evolutionary psychology

You're begging the question, you know... if there is a God, any god, whichever religion you're
talking about, then the theory of evolution isn't very likely to be correct.
(Well, actually, I could just say: There is a God. The Theory of Evolution is a fairy tale. But then
you'd probably say I was being close minded. I believe in miracles... I believe in a God I can't
see... who is close-minded? :) )


> the God that I believe in is not petty enough to exclude good people from heaven just
because they didn't believe in Him.

Hmm... would you invite someone who wanted you (and your son) dead, to become your
adopted child?
God did.
Would you still let the guy in after he died, even if he had refused your invitation, right up until
the moment he died?

I dunno. It makes sense to me, but I suppose I can see how it doesn't to some people.


> For an atheist believing in religion is like believing in magic: it just isn't possible. It defies all
laws of everything we believe in and is out of our comprehension.

It's generally the same for Christians (or followers of other religions), too, you know, that's why
they call it faith :)

Some of us, however, have also seen prayers answered in absolutely unbelievable ways too
often to even consider not believing anymore. I would believe anyway, but after some of the
things I have personally seen, it's just plain impossible not to.


> Despite being an atheist in America, where I am persecuted (though very subtly, in
social-psychological methods)

Life sucks, Christians in North America get persecuted 'subtly' too, you know :) Watch TV.
Read a scientific journal. Read pretty much any textbook dealing with geology or biology.
They may or may not say 'Christian' straight out, but listen to anything the general scientific
community, or especially most of the media, says about Creation Science. When it comes
right down to it, honestly, the whole Theory of Evolution really is made simply as an
explanation for how the world can exist without God - in other words, that the world *does*
exist without God (*any* god), which basically is just another form of trying to get rid of
religion. Any religion that has a god or gods, anyway.
Whatever it is you believe or however you act, *some*body out there will think you're wrong
and somebody will make fun of you. Goth? Punk? Raver? Anime lover? Math Geek? Science
Nerd? Preppy? Politician? Soldier? Rich man? Poor man? Every one is appreciated in some
circles, and looked down on in others. I don't mean it's *okay* to treat people badly just
because you disagree with them, I just mean it happens to everyone.


> as these genes determine their 'incredulousness', and how likely they are to believe
something without evidence.

Hmm... I think they might be confusing, to some degree at least, religion and superstition.
Some religions (or branches of religions) are *very* superstitious (for example, Catholocism
in most countries is). Personally, I'm generally quite an incredulous and strong-willed
(stubborn, rebellious, thick-headed, etc) type of guy, so I find it interesting that I am a Christian
and was taught to be so by my parents despite that. Actually, my dad is a rather incredulous
guy too (he still keeps asking things like 'is there really gravity?' or saying stuff like, 'man,
Einstein was nuts' and then going on to say something that actually makes you start to
wonder if he's right. I'm never quite sure how much of it is a joke...). I'm 23 now, though, and
most of the way through a degree at a secular University, so it's not like I'm still a Christian
only because they tell me to be. Oh, and, by Christian I mean Protestant (somewhere
between a Baptist, an Evengelical, and a Presbyterian), for anyone who even knows what
those are, NOT a Catholic (or an Anglican, which is basically the same even though they call
it Protestant too).
Catholic is usually what someone assumes you mean if you say Christian, which is annoying
to those of us who are definitely not Catholic :)


> when I was 5 and knew without question that Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy and all the rest
were total marketing ploys.

That's why I don't celebrate Christmas, actually. Well, that and the fact that Christ Mass is
actually a Catholic celebration, borrowed and 'converted' from various pagan celebrations, so
I can't really understand why so many Protestants celebrate it to begin with. Telling your kids
Santa Clause and the Tooth Fairy are real is a good way to teach your kids not to believe
their parents when they tell fantastic stories, is my opinion.


>That's all religion is, is a marketing ploy.

To some people, perhaps. I'm sorry you're one of them.


And finally the original:
> Why don't atheists just pick a religion and follow it?

Well, I've sort of wondered that a few times myself. But then, think about it for a minute. Even if
you don't believe in a god, I'm sure you're still smart enough (no that was not a jab at atheists'
intelligence) to figure out that the god of some religion you're only in "just in case it's true"
would obviously be smart enough to realize you're just trying to cover your arsche.


P.S. Okay okay, I got carried away ^.^ I gotta go finish my assignment from Uni now. It is
overdue, but I think I deserved a bit of a break after staying up all night working on it. Just
gotta get it finished.. gotta get it done..! Bye bye.

[mercer_sensei]

Okay, sorry if anyone takes offense at this, but I think it's hilarious and it seems appropriate to the topic at hand:

An atheist decides that atheists ought to have a holiday to themselves, and the government
really should have come up with one by now. Since they haven't, he launches a lawsuit
against the government to have an atheist holiday declared.
The man shows up in court, makes an impassioned speech, and afterwards, the judge asks,
"are you finished, young man?"
The man nods. "Yes, your Honor, I rest my case."
The judge, who happens to be a Christian, says, "well, guess what? Atheists already have a
holiday."
The atheist looks entirely at a loss for words.
"April 1st," says the judge.
The atheist still looks confused. "April fool's day? How is that an atheist holiday?"
"Why," says the judge, "haven't you ever read the Bible? Psalm 14:1 says, 'The fool hath said
in his heart, there is no God!'"

(P.S. to any wet blankets, I already know that the word holiday actually literally means 'holy
day', and that since atheists don't believe in any deity, it's a bit odd to think they would even
want a 'holy day'. Quit quibbling. It's funny. Just laugh ^.^)

I guess you can laugh at this cause that joke would only be funny from a Christians standpoint. It is based on Christian beliefs.

You put up a good argument, but it still comes down to you believing what you believe. I dont believe what you believe, so how is it relevant to me? Holiday might literally mean 'holy day' but Los Angeles means 'city of angels' and I dont think angels reside there



(Sorry, I know I'm kind of skipping around in my replies here, but I just saw a few interesting
things I thought were worth replies, so here goes...)
(Added later: wow, this sucks. How do you get the thing to just post your post without taking
out all the newlines? I'm adding manual BR tags which seems to work, but.. we'll see..)

> Please don't misunderstand, everything about evolutionary psychology

You're begging the question, you know... if there is a God, any god, whichever religion you're
talking about, then the theory of evolution isn't very likely to be correct.
(Well, actually, I could just say: There is a God. The Theory of Evolution is a fairy tale. But then
you'd probably say I was being close minded. I believe in miracles... I believe in a God I can't
see... who is close-minded? :) )

Again, what you believe. This thread isnt titled what does cobras think? If you dont believe in evolution, then I guess your God made the different finches that Darwin studied and they didnt evolve into many different species. Evolution is everywhere around us, so why would we be any exception?



> the God that I believe in is not petty enough to exclude good people from heaven just
because they didn't believe in Him.

Hmm... would you invite someone who wanted you (and your son) dead, to become your
adopted child?
God did.
Would you still let the guy in after he died, even if he had refused your invitation, right up until
the moment he died?

I dunno. It makes sense to me, but I suppose I can see how it doesn't to some people.

Again, based off YOUR Christian beliefs. Who is to say that the Bible isnt just some book that someone wrote to appease the masses? Im not saying that is what it is, but it could be...



> For an atheist believing in religion is like believing in magic: it just isn't possible. It defies all
laws of everything we believe in and is out of our comprehension.

It's generally the same for Christians (or followers of other religions), too, you know, that's why
they call it faith :)

I agree with that, to believe in something that you have never seen and has not been seen for thousands of years you need faith for that

Some of us, however, have also seen prayers answered in absolutely unbelievable ways too
often to even consider not believing anymore. I would believe anyway, but after some of the
things I have personally seen, it's just plain impossible not to.

I can say the same about modern medicine. I was in a wreck and should have died, but modern medicine and the work of the doctors kept me alive... are you saying that if I believed in your God that he would have saved my life without medical help?


> Despite being an atheist in America, where I am persecuted (though very subtly, in
social-psychological methods)

Life sucks, Christians in North America get persecuted 'subtly' too, you know :) Watch TV.
Read a scientific journal. Read pretty much any textbook dealing with geology or biology.
They may or may not say 'Christian' straight out, but listen to anything the general scientific
community, or especially most of the media, says about Creation Science. When it comes
right down to it, honestly, the whole Theory of Evolution really is made simply as an
explanation for how the world can exist without God - in other words, that the world *does*
exist without God (*any* god), which basically is just another form of trying to get rid of
religion. Any religion that has a god or gods, anyway.
Whatever it is you believe or however you act, *some*body out there will think you're wrong
and somebody will make fun of you. Goth? Punk? Raver? Anime lover? Math Geek? Science
Nerd? Preppy? Politician? Soldier? Rich man? Poor man? Every one is appreciated in some
circles, and looked down on in others. I don't mean it's *okay* to treat people badly just
because you disagree with them, I just mean it happens to everyone.

Yes, everyone is persecuted. We get it, all people who are different will have some people to persecute them. Its called human nature.



> as these genes determine their 'incredulousness', and how likely they are to believe
something without evidence.

Hmm... I think they might be confusing, to some degree at least, religion and superstition.
Some religions (or branches of religions) are *very* superstitious (for example, Catholocism
in most countries is). Personally, I'm generally quite an incredulous and strong-willed
(stubborn, rebellious, thick-headed, etc) type of guy, so I find it interesting that I am a Christian
and was taught to be so by my parents despite that. Actually, my dad is a rather incredulous
guy too (he still keeps asking things like 'is there really gravity?' or saying stuff like, 'man,
Einstein was nuts' and then going on to say something that actually makes you start to
wonder if he's right. I'm never quite sure how much of it is a joke...). I'm 23 now, though, and
most of the way through a degree at a secular University, so it's not like I'm still a Christian
only because they tell me to be. Oh, and, by Christian I mean Protestant (somewhere
between a Baptist, an Evengelical, and a Presbyterian), for anyone who even knows what
those are, NOT a Catholic (or an Anglican, which is basically the same even though they call
it Protestant too).
Catholic is usually what someone assumes you mean if you say Christian, which is annoying
to those of us who are definitely not Catholic :)

No, Catholic is what I think of if someone says Catholic. I think Protestant if someone says their denomination. I think Christian if they believe in God. And how did you connect superstition and genetics anyway? Indeed superstition will lead many to believe in their set ways, hence nurture, however, some think outside the box, and these are the people with the incredulousness factor. Wherein they are more likely to question the set beliefs and possibly stray away from their set beliefs, hence nature.


> when I was 5 and knew without question that Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy and all the rest
were total marketing ploys.

That's why I don't celebrate Christmas, actually. Well, that and the fact that Christ Mass is
actually a Catholic celebration, borrowed and 'converted' from various pagan celebrations, so
I can't really understand why so many Protestants celebrate it to begin with. Telling your kids
Santa Clause and the Tooth Fairy are real is a good way to teach your kids not to believe
their parents when they tell fantastic stories, is my opinion.

I agree to an extent. Christmas is the celebration of Christ's birth, so all Christians should celebrate it and not just Catholics. However in this day in age, this holiday has been warped away from its original meaning, so it is mostly for making money and not celebrating the birth of the Christian's Messiah.



>That's all religion is, is a marketing ploy.

To some people, perhaps. I'm sorry you're one of them.

I agree again. Most religious holidays have been warped by major companies to make them money. However, the ones that believe still hold on to their beliefs



And finally the original:
> Why don't atheists just pick a religion and follow it?

Well, I've sort of wondered that a few times myself. But then, think about it for a minute. Even if
you don't believe in a god, I'm sure you're still smart enough (no that was not a jab at atheists'
intelligence) to figure out that the god of some religion you're only in "just in case it's true"
would obviously be smart enough to realize you're just trying to cover your arsche.

Yeah, if you dont believe, then dont. If you do, then do.

[quote=Cobras2;191985] P.S. Okay okay, I got carried away ^.^ I gotta go finish my assignment from Uni now. It is
overdue, but I think I deserved a bit of a break after staying up all night working on it. Just
gotta get it finished.. gotta get it done..! Bye bye.

I still think Athiests are just fine believing what they believe. Ok, they dont believe in your God, thats fine. I hate more than anything else people who force their religion on others. And many religions teach that.

[kami]

> For an atheist believing in religion is like believing in magic: it just isn't possible. It defies all laws of everything we believe in and is out of our comprehension.

It's generally the same for Christians (or followers of other religions), too, you know, that's why they call it faith :)

I agree with that, to believe in something that you have never seen and has not been seen for thousands of years you need faith for that

This whole statement is a paradox. I said "It defies all laws of everything we believe in" yet the whole idea of faith is you believe in something that has never been proven or shown to you. It sounds like faith is believing in something you don't believe in. The wording is just a bit strange.

Take two: So faith is like believing in magic: there are many things and people that contradict it, but you hold through with your faith. Could believing in magic be a kind of faith?


I agree to an extent. Christmas is the celebration of Christ's birth, so all Christians should celebrate it and not just Catholics. However in this day in age, this holiday has been warped away from its original meaning, so it is mostly for making money and not celebrating the birth of the Christian's Messiah.

Again, I agree. Tons of atheists and non-Christians celebrate Christmas. It has been warped from it's original religious meaning. It does have some meaning other than just making money though. It is a time for family reunions and sharing. It is part of our culture, not just a marketing ploy.

[Cobras2]

Again, what you believe.
Of course that's what I believe. *I* said it, didn't I?
And I wasn't quoting anyone. If I wasn't quoting someone, and I said it, then it is either
a) what I believe or
b) a lie.

It wasn't a lie.

Oh and before anyone says it, no, it could not be both. A lie is a falsehood you tell on
purpose. If you tell a falsehood accidentally then it's not a lie; it's just not true.


This thread isnt titled what does cobras think? DANG it, man! I need to get a new monitor.
That thread title is so easy to misread when it's this fuzzy.

Anyway, the THREAD title may not, but I think it's reasonable to assume that the implicit
subtitle on anyone's post any time is generally, "What x thinks", where x is the name
of the person doing the posting :D
After all, your post is pretty obviously subtitled "what does mercer_sensei think", why
shouldn't mine be subtitled "what does cobra think"?
I think that's the point of a forum, isn't it? :)


If you dont believe in evolution, then I guess your God made the different finches that Darwin
studied and they didnt evolve into many different species.
Uh, I think that is what I said, isn't it? If God, or in fact any god of any religion, exists, then
evolution most likely is not the correct explanation for the little finches... yeah, yeah, I
think that's pretty much what I said :)

I didn't actually say (outside the brackets) anything about whether or not God (or a god or
gods) exists; I *said*, *if* any of the religions of the world are correct, then evolution most
likely is not correct.
For a statement with so many qualifiers and such sound internal logic to it, I'd have thought it
would be pretty hard to argue against. ;)


Evolution is everywhere around us, so why would we be any exception?
If you feel like throwing that at me, I can throw it back at you: "Evolution is everywhere around
us"... that's just what you believe. I believe God's good creation is all around us, and it
doesn't have a thing to do with Evolution.
But I'm busy today so let's just agree to disagree ;)



I can say the same about modern medicine. I was in a wreck and should have died, but
modern medicine and the work of the doctors kept me alive... are you saying that if I
believed in your God that he would have saved my life without medical help?
No.... I'm saying *I* have seen things happen that could not be attributed to mere chance. I
didn't say anything about you or anybody else.
Besides, why do extra work when something is already taken care of?
It's a bit like the old rhetoric skeptics used to use. Before scientists discovered that meteorites
can fall from the sky, skeptics said, "the bible cannot be true because it says burning
rocks fell out of the sky in one of the plagues on Egypt, but burning rocks do not fall from
the sky. QED."
Eventually scientists (and lots of other people) discovered that sometimes burning rocks fall
out of the sky.
The skeptics then said, "The bible isn't true because Moses' supposed plague from God was
just simply a regular metorite shower. QED."
Oh, so... if it's unexplainable and unprovable, then it is false... and if it is explainable and
provable then it is just standard nature and has nothing to do with God (or a god or gods) ?
All that logic does is run in circles and prove nothing.



No, Catholic is what I think of if someone says Catholic. I think Protestant if someone says
their denomination.
Congratulations, you are more knowledgable about Christians than a goodly percentage of
the world :)


I think Christian if they believe in God. Actually that would be "Deist" or "Monotheist" or perhaps even Jewish (I can't remember what
the correct term is, but I mean the traditional Jewish religious belief system...). Christian
is more specifically someone who believes in and accepts Jesus Christ as the Son of God.
Thus Catholics and Anglican claim to be Christian. I will not waste my time here arguing
about whether they [in general] are or not.


And how did you connect superstition and genetics anyway? Indeed superstition will lead
many to believe in their set ways, hence nurture, however, some think outside the box,
and these are the people with the incredulousness factor. Wherein they are more likely
to question the set beliefs and possibly stray away from their set beliefs, hence nature.
My point was that superstition requires a lack of incredulity, whereas religion per se does not.
You may of course feel free to disagree with me about the second point, you probably
will anyway :)


Yeah, if you dont believe, then dont. If you do, then do.
I hate more than anything else people who force their religion on others.
True, true... the problem with forcing it is that it's exactly the same as what we just agreed on
about atheists and whether they should pretend to believe something 'just in case'; if you
'force' someone to 'believe' something then they aren't really believing it at all, they're just
pretending to.
There's no point at all in that.

Now, back to work on my assignment! ( Phew, I really want to go to sleep o.O )


This whole statement is a paradox. I said "It defies all laws of everything we believe in" yet the whole idea of faith is you believe in something that has never been proven or shown to you. It sounds like faith is believing in something you don't believe in. The wording is just a bit strange.
Sorry, I left the second sentence in there by accident :)
Take two: So faith is like believing in magic: there are many things and people that contradict it, but you hold through with your faith. Could believing in magic be a kind of faith?

I think so, yes. There are of course different types of faith. For example you might have faith that the sun will come up tomorrow. You may think you *know* it will, but then, there *is* a chance that it won't. On the other hand, you might have faith that you'll fly if you jump off a cliff. I wouldn't test that, though. I mean, you might just happen to land on a hang glider 4 feet down from the edge, but... well, you might not... I know which one *I* think is more likely.
Basically, believing in anything you can't actually prove is faith. Whether or not it's just something silly, perhaps that even you yourself would call silly, or whether it's something you would defend to your death even if others call it silly, is the question.
EDIT: Hmm, interesting... my dictionary says:
1) Unquestioning belief in something, especially religion
3) total trust in or belief of something

So I guess according to the dictionary definition, whether it is provable or not is not the question. The question is, do you totally believe it, or is it just a 'maybe' or 'man, I wish'.
I'm don't exactly agree with the dictionary here (I don't always, though usually), but meh.

[skullreken]

Okay guys this has gone way off topic !
Cobras a fellow Christian to another I share some of your views others I don't
but the question up for debate is whether or not Atheists should just choose a religion to cover their asses
If you want to debate the fundamentals of religion by all means start a separate debate
This is just a clear cut discussion on the question posed by Wondering
Not some where for people of opposing beliefs to blast each other
So guys enough, if you want to continue this please start another thread

[mercer_sensei]

Haha cobras, you win, Im actually with you on most of your points, although Im actually agnostic.

Back to the main point. Athiests shouldnt just pick up a religion simply because they dont believe in it. There is always a chance that they might have a religious or spiritual experience and start believing in a god, and then pick a religion and would really believe in that religion, but to just pick up a religion just because is blasphemous in any religion.

[leoneri]

Wow I left animea for few hours ... and I just notice this kind of thread ... I already pass these "confusing" time with religious stuff. I kind of remember that I already discuss something about religion in this forum. Well ...

[kami]

Back to the main point. Athiests shouldnt just pick up a religion simply because they dont believe in it. There is always a chance that they might have a religious or spiritual experience and start believing in a god, and then pick a religion and would really believe in that religion, but to just pick up a religion just because is blasphemous in any religion.

I agree completely with you there. Religion shouldn't be something people just practice for their own benefit in the afterlife. It should be meaningful in life as well. Don't ever live a lie if you don't have to.

[Anon-sama]

I don't belive in a god and I don't follow a religon. I do however belive in ghost and spirits...too many strange things have happened for me to not belive in them. I think that after we die we either reborn or we go to some nice place.

[evo9]

I do believe in a higher power and I acknowledge any power greater than mine. In that sense a bear in a forest is god, or that truck barreling towards you at 100kph and you're frozen like deer in the headlights. But no I don't believe in a conscious god ,that is there is one conscious being out there silently watching, performing miracles every now and then. If there was It would have gone crazy by now with all the disturbing S**t that people have done to each other... But what I'm really against is ORGANIZED RELIGION.
I'm from the Philippines and it's always so hard for me to hear that the our country is the most catholic nation in Asia. It's just so weird when you think that christianity wouldn't have come here in the first place if it wasn't for Spanish colonialism. I'm just lucky that my parents are liberal and weren't drawn into the whole religion thing and they taught me to THINK FOR MYSELF. But that's not to say that people just don't think for themselves I mean if you really think that religion is right for you without taking into consideration what your parents or society has fed you then kudos to you you are a free human being. But if not then maybe you'd like to re-evaluate some of the things you've learned... just my two cents

[igniz]

Yeah, I had a discussion with my chemistry professor one day. He was saying that there are three possibilities about religion:
1. There is a god, and you believe in him, then you go to heaven
2. There is a god, and you dont believe in him, then you go to hell
3. There is no god, and nothing happensIn that case, what do you have to lose from believing in god, whichever god you choose to believe in, I personally they all stem from the same "god" but thats a different discussion, so if you simply believe, the best case scenario is that you go to heaven, worst case, nothing happens. If you dont believe, the best case scenario is that nothing happens and the worse is that you go to hell. I would see how believing in something would be a good thing. I dont see how not believing in anything could be a good thing.

Man, no offense, but this is simply absurd: if your postulates were right, that would mean if you're a good man but atheist, you will go to hell despite yours good deeds, and if you're a kamikaze terrorist who killed innocent people you will go to heavens because you believed in God. Then that would mean that doing Good or Evil things does not matter , I can't believe I'm reading this.

[devrimsarah]

well... i believe in God. but my best friend in my class is an atheist, so i can understand how atheists think, a bit. we often chat about God, religion etc with my friend. I think anybody musn't be forced to accept an any thought. there is freedom of faith.
I think everybody who says "i believe" will not go to heaven. there are a lot of religious ppl who does bad things for the sake of "goodness". and atheists who making favors to others and try for mankind wont get a terrible punishment. I think God is fair and merciful. that's why, every people get the answer of what they do in their life exactly. and if a person regrets and apologize, i think all his/her sins would be forgiven. I don't think God is a fairy tale, a philosopher named Iqbal proved the existence of God by using Einstein's principle of relativity. Religion isn't in contradiction with science.

guys, i'm not a native, so i have problems with english sometimes, so if i make a mistake in my expressions, i'm sorry for this.

[mercer_sensei]

Man, no offense, but this is simply absurd: if your postulates were right, that would mean if you're a good man but atheist, you will go to hell despite yours good deeds, and if you're a kamikaze terrorist who killed innocent people you will go to heavens because you believed in God. Then that would mean that doing Good or Evil things does not matter , I can't believe I'm reading this.

I think you were taking my list a little too simply, or rather literally. Obviously, if god did require belief in him to be accepted into his afterlife, then it wont matter how good a man you spent your life as, you wont get in. However, if this god does condone killings in his name, then the kamikaze terrorist will probably get in. I would just like for you to tell me what religion condones kamikaze terrorism. As in everything else, belief cant come alone. If you believe, then you must live a life befitting the ideals of god. What I meant by not believing in god, is that you live a life without any concerns of consequences. Obviously even if everyone in this world thinks you are the purest person alive, if you have dark secrets and are only pure in the sight of the world, then god will know how you did not live a life befitting him, and therefore will not get in. No matter who believes or doesnt believe in god, belief ultimately is the basis of actions. Those who dont believe in god but live good, wholesome lives and do their best to help others, then they will probably have a pretty good chance of getting into the afterlife. Those who do believe in god and think that just because they believe they are assured a place in the afterlife, so they live a life of debauchery and sin, they probably wont get in the afterlife, even though they believe in god...

So please try to read between the lines next time and dont take things for face value...

[devrimsarah]

I agree with mercer sensei; it's exactly what i tried to say, thank you^^

[Merlin]

Rather than read all the posts I am just addressing the first one.

I am a devout apathetic. Religion is not interesting to me. It is too troublesome. I have important things to do on [insert holy day/time] that don't include [insert religious tradition]. I wouldn't say I'm an atheist since I do not actively believe in no supreme being at all, I simply don't care enough to generate an opinion.

Atheism sort of a religion, albiet one founded on scientific methods instead of irrational belief systems. Your argument is akin to telling a baptist to pick something else as a backup just in case they're wrong. It doesn't work that way.

[igniz]

Those who dont believe in god but live good, wholesome lives and do their best to help others, then they will probably have a pretty good chance of getting into the afterlife. Those who do believe in god and think that just because they believe they are assured a place in the afterlife, so they live a life of debauchery and sin, they probably wont get in the afterlife, even though they believe in god...

Glad to hear that.
This is not what you were saying the first time, if you don't want to be misunderstood just state clearly where you stand at first. You put a simplist proselytic argument so don't expect me "to read between the lines", but expect me to ask for what you've forgotten to say.

[The_DOC]

I honestly think that anyone should be able to worship whatever they want; in this case, not worship whatever they want. However, if you go and just choose which Religion to worship like that, you're essentially not really following it and just doing something like gambling, which probably won't get you to heaven. I really don't care if I go to heaven or hell, though, I'd rather be down in hell playing dice than in heaven with the goodie-too-shoes.

The only thing I have a problem with Atheists specifically is that they make fun or bash other Religions. What, do they think that they have the answer to life and justify themselves having supremacy over another Relgion? Rather egotystical and annoying at times.

[Dr. Narumi]

Yes it annoys me when atheists take the mickey out of other religions. I support anyone's religion, as long as they respect the fact that I do not believe in God. I do not believe in God but I do believe in "a greater power". I am agnostic in the way that I do not know and there is no way to know if there is a god.

[kami]

So, I was wondering why nobody has brought up the subject that there must be a higher power because of how complicated our bodies are. I don't know how much biology everybody knows, but take our immune system for example. There are many player in the immune system, and none of them can function properly independently. That means that they had to all evolve at exactly the same time, or they would not have evolved at all. So how likely is that in terms of evolution? It probably .000000...1% or so.

[skullreken]

The only thing I have a problem with Atheists specifically is that they make fun or bash other Religions. What, do they think that they have the answer to life and justify themselves having supremacy over another Relgion? Rather egotystical and annoying at times.

Same as myself I have a genuine belief in an afterlife and I know one person who calls me a moron and makes fun of me saying that I only believe in religion because I fear death etc

[mercer_sensei]

So, I was wondering why nobody has brought up the subject that there must be a higher power because of how complicated our bodies are. I don't know how much biology everybody knows, but take our immune system for example. There are many player in the immune system, and none of them can function properly independently. That means that they had to all evolve at exactly the same time, or they would not have evolved at all. So how likely is that in terms of evolution? It probably .000000...1% or so.

I didnt think about this coming up in this thread, but I butt heads with people all the time about this. They do say that our bodies are living proof of there being some higher power, I say not. Yes its true that our bodies are amazing. However, I dont believe that man didnt evolve. Most people when they think of our ancient ancestors, they think of current primates, no it was something very different that we evolved from. I dont think that our bodies are proof of a higher power. I, however, think that if there is a higher power, he directed evolution so that we would be something that could appreciate him. I find it a stupid idea that the world was created and then man just was, no we evolved. We evolved and our immune system is proof of how meticulous evolution is, in that if one thing evolved wrong, the entire system would collapse, and throughout the eons it probably has, and thats how we are what we are today, through survival of the fittest. Evolution proceeds by survival of the fittest and because humans no longer practice this survival of the fittest, our gene pools have stagnated and we have so many genetic diseases out there in the world. /sigh Ill end my rant now.

[Merlin]

The only thing I have a problem with Atheists specifically is that they make fun or bash other Religions. What, do they think that they have the answer to life and justify themselves having supremacy over another Relgion? Rather egotystical and annoying at times. I could say the same thing about religious people. Plus, there is an extensive history of religiously motivated violence. There have never been wars started because of atheism.


I was wondering why nobody has brought up the subject that there must be a higher power because of how complicated our bodies are. As someone that has seriously studied biology and anatomy I see clear evolutionary paths to develop such complex structures. This argument is far from persuasive.

[The_DOC]

~Points And Rebuttles~

I could say the same thing about religious people.

Yes you can, but whether you should is the question. Let's take Buddhism for example. The Religion clearly states to not cause any disturbances by arguing and make fun of any other Religions, and the worshippers respect that. That's why you don't see arguments being fought over about Buddhism. We also have the Christians and the Jews, but all the fights I've seen between them around this time of age are debates being held between them. They do not pompously say that there is no God and nothing happens after you die, like the Atheists do. Most Religions respect the other's ideas even if they do disagree; Atheists do not.

Plus, there is an extensive history of religiously motivated violence. There have never been wars started because of atheism.

That's because the English never invented Atheism until the 1800s or 1900s. Seeing as it's basically a fad with the teenagers today, let's just say that it was invented pretty early. The English (Europe, basically, and much of the USA) live in a more sophisticated society than they did around 500 years ago, where Religious wars were still going. There are still wars being fought over Religions like Protestants and Christians, but that's usually around the Middle East or parts of Asia -- the Atheists are usually in the English part of the world, so it's no wonder wars haven't been started by them. Even if they had a chance to go to war, what are they fighting for? To make people believe that there is no God or gods? It would really accomplish something.

[cloudmaster88]

Aethists are fine with me, I'm sort of one....don't really believe in god myself...only science can prove everything...the bible is only fairy tales to get you by in life that is the reality of it all..

[[dW]]

I guess atheists become atheists because certain events in life turn them into such. try infiltrating the religious system and you'll see the bad side of it... some people who consider it a sham to believe and blindly obey an uncertain entity end up being atheists, non-believers who prefer to rely on their own beliefs and convictions.

it's not bad to be an atheist, it's just like... having a different opinion.

unfortunately, a greater portion of mankind believe in the existence of heaven and earth or evil and good, and they think that not believing in whatever the majority believes in is like, a mortal sin. I think it'll make a HUGE difference if we try looking at having (and not having) a religion as a choice, and not as something compulsory.

this is just an opinion... I'm a Catholic, although not hard-core, and I respect the opinion of everyone. but I think that atheists deserve the same respect that every religious person gets. Atheism is not evil... it's just, well, different from what most have grown to believe/embrace/accept.

Remember, being good or evil does not depend on religion alone. It is the actions/deeds that set the difference..

[Linen]

Atheists have no morals, religion teaches us morals and standards, without them we would just be vulgar. I mean God teaches us a lot of things like to be nice to one another, and show kindness, if there was none of this then, what do you think the world would be like, it would be like the viking age all over again, and did you know the Bible and Qu'ran taught scientists all they know, they use them as guides.
Plus i don't like the fact that atheists use to think we were monkeys and stuff. Hey dude, you don't see me throwing my poop and eating bananas simultaneously.

[skullreken]

what about priests who molest children
or people who murder and commit hate crimes in the name of religion
you can still be religious and do evil things
just because you dont follow a religion doesnt mean you'll murder steal and cheat

[Linen]

And there you're wrong, my religion, that is Islam, has it's own laws such as Shirah code, so we accept National Law and this Law as well, and we believe we are judged on the last day, on whether we did good or bad.
In Shirah code the penalties are harsh, just like Arab laws, and as muslims are beliefs are strong, thats why were the fastest growing religion in the world.
But thats just me.

[skullreken]

and how does that argument prove me wrong?
you just contradicted yourself the point you made initially was athiests have no morals which means they will just go out do bad things regaurdlessly now when someone challenges you, you change the subget to your religion with out offering any proof as to why someone with no religion will automatically go around doing bad deeds some people with other religions may think that your system is wrong and by default you are immoral

morals are not just bound exclusively to a religion it is about a personal choice as humans we all have capacity to think and control our own actions
just as I pointed out there has been numerous cases of sexual abuse in the Catholic church all around the world people are killing each other for being in a differentr eligion or a different sect of the same religion as I have pointed out people who have religions have the capacity to do evil and do carry out this evil despite the fact that it is immoral

It is not a religion that spawns moral standard but the socioty that people grow up in if you go to different countries you will see differences in what is socially acceptable from country to country Rome had a religion with no set dogma (rules to follow) people just worshiped their Gods on set feast days and in their socioty the father ruled supream he owned everything his wife was his property and what she had was his to give and take away he could also throwr his chilgren into the streets if he decided he didnt want them anymore all within the law

While across the border in Gaul the celts who also followed religion that had no dogma had a system were women could not only own their own wealth and property the could achieve high status in socioty the tribe was also obliged to look after the sick the elderly and orphened children such things as this were unheard of in Rome and giving woman any form of status was considered totaly perverse by their standards

these were two sociotys that had radically different views on women children but one thing they had in common was laws against theft and murder dispite the fact that in their legends their gods stole from each other and murdered each other you would think that if the ones they worshipped commited such crimes that they would condone such crimes in their own socioty but no they didnt because these people had some form of morality within the confinds of their own socioty despite the fact that their religions had no dogma and did not command people to follow a certain path in life

[Linen]

]and how does that argument prove me wrong?
you just contradicted yourself the point you made initially was athiests have no morals which means they will just go out do bad things regaurdlessly now when someone challenges you, you change the subget to your religion with out offering any proof as to why someone with no religion will automatically go around doing bad deeds some people with other religions may think that your system is wrong and by default you are immoral

First off friend, this is no system, and religion teaches you morals, that is my reason, I'm not trying to be mean or anything, i'm just trying to start a debate. For instance if we there was no religion, then people we become vulgar and imagine in the past, the basics of all life in the colonies was worship towards god and such. Now erase all of our history and add an atheist one, where there were no morals or religion, in that world without religion, there would be less scientific foundation, less war, more freedom, more killing, people could do anything they want because there are no sins, or morals because the bible never came, neither did the Quran's. It's been tried before, and the country that tried it collapsed in 1991.

morals are not just bound exclusively to a religion it is about a personal choice as humans we all have capacity to think and control our own actions
just as I pointed out there has been numerous cases of sexual abuse in the Catholic church all around the world people are killing each other for being in a differentr eligion or a different sect of the same religion as I have pointed out people who have religions have the capacity to do evil and do carry out this evil despite the fact that it is immoral

Morals came from religion, Atheists were introduced to morals by people, maybe there parents were Christians who taught them manners, because why? Because it was good, and it was taught in the Qu'ran fro muslims. And people did it to show respect, even true democracy was born from the bible, not the roman kind, but the early europe kind, of which America was founded from.

It is not a religion that spawns moral standard but the socioty that people grow up in if you go to different countries you will see differences in what is socially acceptable from country to country Rome had a religion with no set dogma (rules to follow) people just worshiped their Gods on set feast days and in their socioty the father ruled supream he owned everything his wife was his property and what she had was his to give and take away he could also throwr his chilgren into the streets if he decided he didnt want them anymore all within the law

Are you familiar with the saying Religion is Rules, well i am, and it still stand clear, google it.


While across the border in Gaul the celts who also followed religion that had no dogma had a system were women could not only own their own wealth and property the could achieve high status in socioty the tribe was also obliged to look after the sick the elderly and orphened children such things as this were unheard of in Rome and giving woman any form of status was considered totaly perverse by their standards

I don't know if this is true, but i'm giving you credits to this, i have no way to respond. Good debate dude.

these were two sociotys that had radically different views on women children but one thing they had in common was laws against theft and murder dispite the fact that in their legends their gods stole from each other and murdered each other you would think that if the ones they worshipped commited such crimes that they would condone such crimes in their own socioty but no they didnt because these people had some form of morality within the confinds of their own socioty despite the fact that their religions had no dogma and did not command people to follow a certain path in life

These rules were founded by God, and i think the Bible and Quran were revealed before this, as too say that Adam was the first man, God must have taught the celts and romans these things through some kind of message, if you gave me a certain time period I'm sure i could answer more thoroughly. Some cultures have rules, i'm only saying Atheists do not, Polytheism is a religion dude. They have religions, and gods, the celts and romans learned these things from there own gods, on there own time, and God must have interfered. But even the Greeks had morals through religion, as through the facts that Plato's dialogues and Socrates' as well had virtues for the characters of humans. Look it up. They taught courage, because of the gods own courage to stand up to the Titans, these things require religion, and religion has morals.

Good Debate, it was very interesting, i'm only 16 so take it easy on me, lol.

[[dW]]

Atheists have no morals, religion teaches us morals and standards, without them we would just be vulgar. I mean God teaches us a lot of things like to be nice to one another, and show kindness, if there was none of this then, what do you think the world would be like, it would be like the viking age all over again, and did you know the Bible and Qu'ran taught scientists all they know, they use them as guides.
Plus i don't like the fact that atheists use to think we were monkeys and stuff. Hey dude, you don't see me throwing my poop and eating bananas simultaneously.

I don't like the idea of originating from monkeys either but there are scientific evidences to back that up... BUT, I still don't like the idea of originating from apes. >__<


no, people don't EXCLUSIVELY learn morals from religion. Its the immediate environment that imposes such values upon us, plus culture and societal rules and a HUGE part from your parents/family. yes, religion is a contributor for most of us who have and a religion, but it's not the only source of a person's morals. If I decide to change my religion from Christianity to, say, Judaism, would it change my morals? Yes, but only to a certain extent because of the rules imposed upon by my new religion. But I have my own set of rules to follow... it's not like the religion dictates everything.

Morals are not meant to be dictated. Personally, I think dictated or "forced" morals don't last. As rational beings, we use our minds and learn from whatever life had shown us so far, and from that, we are shaped into the person we are now.



LOVE and PEACE!!! ~Vash the Stampede

[Ren-kun]

I'm an Atheist, so nobody get mad..but I'll tell you what I believe.

It doesn't matter if somebody believes in a certain type of religion. I just don't believe there is a god. I believe we are creatures created by the big bang theory.

Thats just my point of view. So plz don't get mad..

[skullreken]

I totaly respect your beliefes
I am religious but I also accept the big bang theory
to me it doesnt matter that everything wasnt created in seven days the fact that the universe came into existance from nothing is a mirical
I also believe in evolution but what I believe is important there is that we have soles and we were reached out to by our gods

[<3Ryu]

I dont want any religion telling me how i should and should not live my life, there is already enough rules from gevernments for that. Science have proven religion to be wrong, adam and eve? so were all from the same incestuous parents, thats a nice thought. And how did the bible manage to forget to mention the dinosaurs, bit of an oversight there. Any way im not here to point out the flaws in religion, which are numerous but just to say i dont want people telling me how i should live. BElieve what ever you want but WHATEVER happens do not force it on other. A good friend of mine from japan who was japanese wnet on a homestay in america, in the bible belt, she had months of attempted brainwashing to get her to follow there beliefs, thats fucking outrageous.

[Opacic_A]

PROTIP PEOPLE : WE DID NOT ORIGINATE FROM APES, WE SHARE A COMMON ANCESTOR WITH THEM BUT WE DID NOT ORIGINATE FROM THEM.



I've seen a few remarks about people who 'believe' in a God have little intelligence, or lack common sense.

Anyone who says such a thing really should just take a look in the mirror and see how much of a hypocrite they are.

Although this really isn't to the point, but has no one considered an afterlife without a higher power?



Atheists have no morals, religion teaches us morals and standards, without them we would just be vulgar. I mean God teaches us a lot of things like to be nice to one another, and show kindness, if there was none of this then, what do you think the world would be like, it would be like the viking age all over again, and did you know the Bible and Qu'ran taught scientists all they know, they use them as guides.


Buddy, morals form as a result of social structure, not as a result of faith. I can argue that some religion exists just so the unruly bunch of us actually have reason to listen to laws. Many murderers still hold their faith in God, and just as many don't, religion is not a buffer against immorality.

And standards? What standards? There are no standards in this world, standards vary as much as you or I look alike. Some people find fat people attractive, I myself don't because I see that as 'below my standard', but to those others it may not be.



Plus i don't like the fact that atheists use to think we were monkeys and stuff. Hey dude, you don't see me throwing my poop and eating bananas simultaneously.

We weren't "Monkeys", you must be terribly misinformed about the theory of human evolution.

Thousands of instances of fossil and biological evidence almost proves that we and other primates had a common ancestor at some point, and as a matter of fact the way you said it we were all once reptiles as well, hence our tail bone at the base of our spine.

The various layers of our brain increase in complexity at an astounding rate as we get further away from the core of the brain, which regulates our fight or flight instinct, and our basic respiratory system such as the heart and lungs, our outermost layer of the brain regulates what many Biologists believe is the source of our consciousness and more complicated emotions.

So before you go off making more uninformed statements about science, I would suggest you research it a little more.


Big Bang Theory

The big bang theory is a hotly debated subject between science and religion, it argues that a particle of near infinite density expanded at an astounding rate.

There is proof that at some point, the Universe was packed into a very tiny area, as evidenced by galaxies spreading further and further apart at a linear rate.

This is neither proof for or against the existence of a deity or deities.

So basically the matter you are made of is approximately 12 Billion or more years old, we are made of "star stuff" as Carl Sagan put it.

[absolute_terror]

theory of evolution is 0.001% "could be true" and 100% lie, there are lots of monkey smileys here, and none of these came close to look like me, those who say we evolved from monkeys is the monkey himself, those whos ay we could be relative sof monkeys is a monkey, monkey, apes = animals, we, you, me = humans, simple?...

there's a big difference bet. theory and law, why hasn't anyone talk about the big bang law or the law of evolution, bec neither exist nor will it ever be turned into one, and isn't science the maker of the so called "theory of evolution" and "big bang theory"??? now tell me, how much have they proven? read about science studies, one time they'll this, next year they'll say "no, the studies made before were wrong, this is the right thing, science does lacks consistency...

science as much as it has improved our lives one way or the other, don't you see it's mans greatest failure, bec of science we have global warming, bec of science people die of aids, bec evarything around us is science, but to the extent of intruding my existence as human, a living soul, that's way too far for science, science was created bec we humans exist and not the other way around...evolution? what is this, stone age?

ragardless of your religious stand, i respect my fellow human, but we can't avoid the fact, other people, atheist, or member of diff religious sects don't have that much respect for others, but i would agree if your an atheist, why believe in a higher power? it's confusing...i don't believe in religion, that would make me an atheist??? NO!!!

i believe in God, God did the creation, not hokus pokus science magic or evolution bang bang monkey became human, ok believe what you want, i'll leave you to that...respect is all i can offer but share your beliefs is beyond my capacity...

and those who doesn't believe in God, don't, and the bible, don't read it, i'm amazed how so many define God as religion...that's too lame, and btw some or maybe most of the MOST IMMORAL HUMAN that existed in this world are none other than those behind the so called "religion"... history don't lie, can't tell all the story one by one, only if your willing to research...

so which side will i choose, neither, both science and religion fail...i'm with my God, i said "my GOD" so i'm not forcing anyone to accept my beliefs...

[Opacic_A]

theory of evolution is 0.001% "could be true" and 100% lie, there are lots of monkey smileys here, and none of these came close to look like me, those who say we evolved from monkeys is the monkey himself, those whos ay we could be relative sof monkeys is a monkey, monkey, apes = animals, we, you, me = humans, simple?...

there's a big difference bet. theory and law, why hasn't anyone talk about the big bang law or the law of evolution, bec neither exist nor will it ever be turned into one, and isn't science the maker of the so called "theory of evolution" and "big bang theory"??? now tell me, how much have they proven?

Do you know what a theory is?

It's not something that people just think up off the spot out of randomness.

Honestly, the lack of understanding that people have of science, yet choosing to totally not figure out what it means, and instead just go off spouting ignorant rhetoric without anything to back them up.

Science lacks consistency because the scientific method demands that anything can be proven wrong if there's enough evidence of all kinds.

Immense amounts of evidence suggest we and all other primates evolved from a common ancestor, this comes from paleontological and medical evidence.

Oh and what's this about us not being animals? We are animals, no doubt about that, just because we're the dominant species on the planet doesn't make us anymore superior than the lowliest bacteria, the only difference being we have the ability to contemplate existence, that's all.


read about science studies, one time they'll this, next year they'll say "no, the studies made before were wrong, this is the right thing, science does lacks consistency...
I see nothing wrong with this, scientific ideas are made to be disproven if they can, that's the beauty of science, eventually you will come across something that is nearly flawless with unfalliable evidence.

No one has disproven evolution because no one can come up with as much a compelling argument against it and give enough evidence to back the claim up.



Oh and uh, the Big Bang Theory is called a theory because it hasn't been observed, all we have is evidence that at some point 10's of billions of years ago, a massive release of energy caused the universe to expand at an immense rate, we know this due to the red shift of light from other galaxies that reaches Earth.

You know I could just go outright and call you an ignorant fool, because you're just making claims out of your arse without making any compelling argument with evidence to back it up.

Why don't you actually research what you're trying so hard on this forum to disprove? Instead of just saying "OH LOL WELL DESE MONKEY EMOTICONS DUN LOOK LIKE ME SO EVOLUTION IS BULLSHIT LOL"

[absolute_terror]

you're really good, i applaude you, seriously, no offense, your reasoning is great, but at least i won't call you a fool, you're a strong believer of science that i can see, don't worry it's a continuous research for what you believe and where your faith stands, you believe in evolution, i believe in creation...



Thousands of instances of fossil and biological evidence "almost" proves that we and other primates had a common ancestor at some point,


but then;



Immense amounts of evidence suggest we and all other primates evolved from a common ancestor, this comes from paleontological and medical evidence.


i'm confused bec i'm a fool, nah i know what you mean...



I see nothing wrong with this, scientific ideas are made to be disproven if they can, that's the beauty of science, eventually you will come across something that is nearly flawless with unfalliable evidence.


CORRECT:

"The essence of the scientific method is that any hypothesis, conclusion, belief, or theory can only be considered tentative truth. It may be falsified at any time in the future as new evidence surfaces"

can't blame you for taking the half-truth side...oh i just paste this^^
from somewhere, not mine...



Oh and what's this about us not being animals? We are animals, no doubt about that, just because we're the dominant species on the planet doesn't make us anymore superior than the lowliest bacteria, the only difference being we have the ability to contemplate existence, that's all.



You win, i remember a biology teacher did told me, and science made Kingdom:Animalia,Phylum:Chordata,Class:Mammalia,In fraclass:Eutheria, Superorder:Euarchontoglires,Order:Primate...nah i'm human...but you win.


Oh and uh, the Big Bang Theory is called a theory because it hasn't been observed, all we have is evidence that at some point 10's of billions of years ago, a massive release of energy caused the universe to expand at an immense rate, we know this due to the red shift of light from other galaxies that reaches Earth.


your statement is a bit messy...you said it, it hasn't been observed...

"In science a theory is a testable model of the manner of interaction of a set of natural phenomena, capable of predicting future occurrences or observations of the same kind, and capable of being tested through experiment or otherwise verified through empirical observation"

ooops, sorry i paste this again from the book of wiki^^bec i'm a fool,
this will make your big bang theory, boom not a theory after all, then again you win, experiments are made for this right???...

opacic, you don't believe in the bible right, but even if you do, it's not my nature to argue with anyone, specially a smart guy like you, but i admit on a scientific point of view you have stated quite a lot of interesting arguments, that of course you are very willing to back up with evidence, bottomline is, i see you as a smart guy...yup i'll allow you to call me a fool even if your,



Immense amounts of evidence


can't be shown here one by one bec there are too many....

i believe in creation, not science evolution: http://bible.thelineberrys.com/GEN/GEN1.HTM

20 And God said, "Let the waters bring forth swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the dome of the sky." 21So God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, of every kind, with which the waters swarm, and every winged bird of every kind. And God saw that it was good. 22God blessed them, saying, "Be fruitful and multiply and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth." 23And there was evening and there was morning, the fifth day.
24 And God said, "Let the earth bring forth living creatures of every kind: cattle and creeping things and wild animals of the earth of every kind." And it was so. 25God made the wild animals of the earth of every kind, and the cattle of every kind, and everything that creeps upon the ground of every kind. And God saw that it was good.
26 Then God said, "Let us make humankindc in our image, according to our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the wild animals of the earth,d and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth."
27 So God created humankinde in his image,
in the image of God he created them;f
male and female he created them.

what special animals we are...you can browse if you like...peace opacic

[skullreken]

I think Hindu's Buddhists Druids Wickans and most people who dont follow any Religion which bases the explanation for the creation of the world from the old testiment will turn around and tell you that you are worng what you are saying is just a fairy tail and that what their religion teaches as being the origin of the universe is right
and then you can can turn arround and say that their religion is a fairy tale and then we get caught in a nice circle of agument

the point I am making is this, to someone who doesnt believe, something that someone quotes from a book that hasn't been founded on research which also has nothing to back up it's claims are to be taken with a grain of salt. so if you start telling people that what they believe is wrong and that your rigt because you have a book but nothing to prove whats written in the book your going to come across as being ignorant and they are just going to ignor what you say just like I did

Now I am not an athiest I'm just not a Christian but I do my religion does not have a story for the origin of the Universe so I am happy to accept the big bang theory and I do accept evolution these theorys arent some sort of insult, to me they are proof of miricals the fact that this Universe exists is a mirical the fact that a collection of chemicals came together to form a living cell which has given rise to billions of life forms on this planet is a mirical

[absolute_terror]

i respect your belief skull, like i said i don't expect anyone to accept my belief or my faith, people will call me ignorant and fool, fine, i'm not insulted by that, i did mention i believe in the creation of men stated in the bible and there is no possible proof i can give but the written scriptures itself, for people who does't believe in it, it's fine with me and debates will happen not just from people of diff religious sects but as well as people with diff beliefs outside religion, i just post a portion of where i got my beliefs, i don't mind reading others posting where they get the things they believe in, even a small portion would help. i myself don't follow any religion, but that doesn't mean my beliefs is based on mere fascination, there is a hard copy of how i came to be in this world..i just shared it, didn't mean to offend other religion.

if you can read my previous post, i have nothing but respect, no one here expect to accept our beliefs except those with the same faith...anyway if i have mentioned things that insulted other people,well i'm very willing to apologize, well i'm off, i enjoyed reading what others posts here...

[Opacic_A]

I'm not an Atheist, I'm an Agnostic.

I choose to believe that there if there is in fact a deity or deities in this world, then we haven't found him, her, or them, and they haven't found us.

Though what really grinds my gears if when people go out and say "LOL EVOLUTION IS WRONG, HUMANS ARE SPESHUL, GAWD IS REAL AND HE MADE US" without bringing anything to the table except a 2000 year old book of questionable origin.

It's like trying to prove that a tea pot is in orbit somewhere between Mars and Earth, try and disprove me, as illogical as it sounds it could still be possible. But is it really relevant anyway? (Oh, and the idea that the Earth orbits around the Sun is also a theory)

[Paprika]

We are just simply spiralling coils of self-replicating DNA
so listen Eric Idle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcTHBOjnUss&feature=related

[playa_chan]

I'm not trying to personally attack any atheists here in animea so don't take this personally. I don't get it. If an atheist believes that when he/she dies, they'll only be six feet under, then why don't they just pick a religion? I am not endorsing any particular religion in any shape, form, or manner. I'm just saying, pick a religion and follow it. If the religious people were right, and you picked the "right religion" then congratulations, you're in heaven. If the religious people were wrong all along, then you're still six feet under like you originally thought. What have you got to lose? Anyone know what I mean?

>> "" If an atheist believes that when he/she dies, they'll only be six feet under, then why don't they just pick a religion?"" <<

As far as i am concerned, an atheist is someone who does not believe in god. This does not automatically mean that the atheist also believes that he is going to hell.
Atheists do not believe in god, but they do have their own beliefs regarding to what will happen to them after they die. There are many different possibilities that are to be considered for the afterlife/after death situation. For example:
1. reincarnation
2. Become one with the nature since your body will become dust someday and you will literrally mix with the nature.
3. nothing. some people believe in the nothingness after death... everything is over after death...
4. ....
There are many more theories... the "heaven and hell" theorie is just 1 out of a thousand.


>>""then why don't they just pick a religion? I am not endorsing any particular religion in any shape, form, or manner. I'm just saying, pick a religion and follow it. ""<<

Following a religion and believing in a religion are 2 different things. Anyone could follow a religion, as in going to the church, reading the bible, doing the ramadan,...etc. But what does following a religion bring you when you really dont believe in it. Trying to make an atheist believe in god is like trying to make you believe in santa claus again. It is impossible. I believe you become an atheist when you start questioning yourself all the things you havent gotten a logical/scientifically proven/just proven answer. The answers to those questions lies within the religion for the religious people.

I personally think, (and without wanting to offend any religious opinions who stubbornly want to believe that they believe to the core), there are and will always be at least little atheistic thoughts and questions within everyone of us, religious or not.

I dont say religion is a marketing ploy, but to be honest, a lot of people really do invest a lot of money on their religion. For example take all the expensive paintings and potraits, also there are a lot of very expensive mugs, lucky charms and other small stuff.. and i dont even want to start talking about how much money scientology gets. Even though i think scientology was considered more as a cult than a religion.


The middle age or dark age or whatever you call it in english .. I mean the time before 200 years or somewhere there... I remember something i learned in school.. There were churches who sold some kind of coupon which could forgive you sins... so if someone sinned he just had to buy the coupon or 'donate' as in make a new church or pay the renovation for it .... and then he could get this coupon and so he was sure to not go to hell... it was like a ticket to heaven for some people. But that was a long time ago. I just want to show how Religion has blinded many people before and still can.


Oh, well i think i got swayed away a little and got off topic a little ;__;

[sawreese]

Isnt not believing in a god a theology itself? The absence of religion can be considered a religion. Therefore there is a difference between the people who are commonly dubbed atheists. Its kinda like the difference between 0 and undefined in math. Undefined are the true atheists even though the term has shifted to the 0s (No offense, but i will dub them as this from here on) who just dont believe in any current religion but unknowingly have created their own based on a sense of what is right and wrong in their eyes. In the case of the undefined, the concept of heaven/hell/nirvana...ect. would only appy to them if they believed in Something at all, even nothing. but since they have no beliefs, they their point is they cant be judged. The 0s on the other hand, really have their own belief system so it would be like asking a christian like me why im not a buddist too so i can double my chances of landing on the upside of the afterlife. the answer is my beliefs conflict with theirs so in reality, if i tried to get in both, id get neither. An example would be to compare christians with 0s. If a 0 followed christianity, something of meaning would be lost. this something of meaning is why the 0 did not become a christian to begin with. it may be independence or pleasure in a certain category of life or what ever. So then they would have to throw away thier beliefs for someone elses they didnt choose and most likely would not be able to meet the requirements of any religion. thus they are left with nothing.

[khaosmonk]

Picking a religion is not that simple. To truly be something, it takes real faith, not just randomly saying something like "i'll be christian because i dont have a religion". People should just believe what they sincerely feel is right instead of being swayed into a false faith. Therefore, being atheist is just fine..

[Deekle]

Yeah, I had a discussion with my chemistry professor one day. He was saying that there are three possibilities about religion:


2. There is a god, and you dont believe in him, then you go to hell



I combat this with "God forgives the deepest sins"

Also I am an Atheist due to mostly personal reasons. Believe in god to me is like believing in the tooth fairy or santa clause. Its just not real.

Everyone is looking for an explanation and they will go to any means to make something that makes sense.

I myself had a lot of personal stories that i'd rather not share. I lost all my faith and now I don't believe in any gods. I'd rather read about confusionism since it is more of a way of life then after life.

If anything i'd think when we die we get reincarnated , but I havn't experienced it so...

[thatguyisbrett]

I'm not trying to personally attack any atheists here in animea so don't take this personally. I don't get it. If an atheist believes that when he/she dies, they'll only be six feet under, then why don't they just pick a religion? I am not endorsing any particular religion in any shape, form, or manner. I'm just saying, pick a religion and follow it. If the religious people were right, and you picked the "right religion" then congratulations, you're in heaven. If the religious people were wrong all along, then you're still six feet under like you originally thought. What have you got to lose? Anyone know what I mean?

first of all religion is not something you choose to follow without truly believing in it. in the scenario that your religion was the right on how do you think god would look at someone who pretended their whole life to believe in him?

i am not an atheist but i think the idea that any religion is right about god is absurd. i refuse to believe that there is some santa-esque omnipotent peeping tom out there who watches me when im in the shower. too many questions come up for me to believe that any religion has it right

what about aborigines in australia or africa? these people may have never even heard of jesus and somehow they go to hell for it? it just doesnt make sense to me.

if 1 religion really is the right one and god is all powerful and omnipotent why doesnt he just stop us all one day and say "hey guys its me god. i just want you all to know the religion that is right is ...... *drumroll* .... shinto!!" or whatever it is.

all religions have a common core set of values that boils down to: be good to eachother. this idea is built into our dna (see biological altruism). we all have an inate urge deep down to not destroy our own species. it could be argued that we could easily come up with the 10 comandments on our own without needing god to strike them onto a stone tablet.

but really, im not an atheist. atheism implies the certainty that there is no god. i believe that there had to be a "god" being, object or plain of existence or something that created the entire universe. something doesnt just come from nothing. maybe god plays a major role in our day to day lives or maybe god just created everything and let it all work its own course. or maybe there is no being that is a god but our own consciousness is god. the only thing that is certain is that nothing is certain. ~Montaigne

[Anon-sama]

No gravedigging! *thread closed*