Trigun

[CJSchen]

http://myanimelist.net/anime.php?id=4106


that's a thing for Trigun movie :D

[rbbt780]

o loved trigun the characters were simply creative to me the plot of the whole series was great and i just think vash is badass too bad wolf wood had to die seriously i was about to cry when i saw him asking for forgiveness damn that show is great i have to download it now

[Sanouske]

Originally Posted by CJSchen

http://myanimelist.net/anime.php?id=4106


that's a thing for Trigun movie :D

I saw that recently myself (the page, movie has yet to air). I am excited for it, especially since it is supposed to e an entirly origional story. :)

[arya9875]

Originally Posted by Kilyle

I adore the series, and the characterization was top-notch. I however disagree strongly with the philosophical conclusion. Vash is responsible for just about every death on the series. The villain stated his clear intention (genocide) right in front of Vash; Vash had at least two separate on-screen occasions and probably several more off-screen occasions to do something to stop him, and yet Vash did nothing to stop him. Did the series ever mention how many innocents died? Thousands? Millions? All their blood is on Vash's hands, and the series never really deals with that implication.

I allow one possible counter-argument here. If the person in Vash's shoes were, say, six, then even if he had the physical ability to kill the villain, he would probably lack the psychological ability to commit murder - and we wouldn't hold that against him, no matter what the stakes. So if Vash at the time were young enough that we can excuse him via psychology, I could buy that. I'd accept that as an excuse.

The other thing to think about is: Vash could have imprisoned, rather than killed. He had the option of doing something to physically prevent the villain from carrying out his plan of genocide that would nevertheless leave the villain alive. Assuming he was mature enough psychologically to be culpable when they parted ways, this option would have preserved his morality and still prevented the genocide. And unless there's a good reason to reject this plan, I'd say Vash is even more guilty on account of this point, because it essentially nullifies the conflict between moral actions.

I haven't read much Ayn Rand, but I appreciate one point of hers that has stuck with me: Assuming the ethical thing to do is to cause the greatest good for the greatest number (subject to some other considerations, of course), the "greatest number" only accounts for what I shall here call "Rational Beings." When you initiate violence against another Rational Being, you automatically take yourself out of the group, making you a non-Rational Being. And while some of your rights still need to be considered, you are no longer equal in rights to a Rational Being.

Thusly, if you have two people, Innocent Bystander and Violent Criminal, and you have to choose among various options that will affect the welfare of both, and for whatever reason your options have been limited to options that harm one or both of them, you must choose an option that harms Violent Criminal - or even kills him. It is far more important to save and protect Innocent Bystander than it is to save and protect Violent Criminal, because Violent Criminal has already proven himself to be a non-Rational Being and taken himself out of the "greatest good for the greatest number" equation.

Other takes on this problem? I'd love to hear them.

P.S. Wolfwood's defining moment near the end of the series, wherein he sees someone threatening to kill Vash and kills the someone instead. Yes, it's tragic. I fully accept that. He still did the right thing, given the information he had at the time. He has nothing to feel guilty over, although it's fine to mourn the tragedy of it all. Caveat: Knowing that Vash would rather die that kill, would rather die than let others be killed (even villains), Wolfwood might best have let Vash be shot rather than kill to save him - but he might have had to kill anyway to save the girls.

ummmmmmmmmmmm...... arent you looking at it at a general level??
think....
the cosest thing we have in this world is our family
be he the kindest person or hitler himself they are family
when it is another peron involved we would not hesitate to correct them
but when it comes to family we usualy hesitate.
second he dose not want to kill
in the past, when he had the chance to kill knives he did not because he ws naive. we he matured knive already went into hideing.
fore the third you have to understand first, vash and knives are both NOT human. they are plants taken human form (like eureka from eurake 7) now since the life span of a plant is way longer than an average human it would also mean that the rate at wich maturity comes is slower and that is IF it comse at all. also he wanted to save everyone. thats why he didnt kill knives and that is why he is still naive. with that kind of view in life, how the hell do you expect him to even point a gun at someones face and shoot. the only time he killed some one was when he was foreced into a corne in wich his ideals and his heart was put ot the test. that was the only time he truly got serious in his quest for knives

P.S legato is coooooooooooooooool

[Kilyle]

I do grant that his being not human, and having a distinctly non-human rate of maturation, makes my argument a little more iffy. I think I said in my first post that, yes, if the only times he was able to stop Knives were times that he was emotionally the equivalent of a six-year-old, then no one would hold it against him that he failed to stop Knives. Consider in Criminal Minds when a boy of maybe twelve thinks that his mom has kidnapped his cousin, and repeatedly hides this information from the feds - he's not culpable, because he's too young. He would be culpable if he had killed his cousin, but he is not culpable for refusing to turn in his mom. So, yeah, the age/maturity thing is a decent counter.

The family thing is not. If my father, whom I dearly love, told me - in a way that I took to be serious - that he was planning to kill innocent people, and I had the opportunity to do something to stop him (or warn the people), but instead I decided to just look the other way, I would be equally as guilty of their deaths as he was.

My response would not have to be deadly, unless it came to be the only option. I could take actions to place him in jail. I could try to talk him out of it. But if it came to the choice between letting him kill innocent people, and having me kill him, the only moral choice would be to kill him. And if I failed to do so, whether because of my love for him or because of my unwillingness to take a life by my own hands, then it would be a moral failing in me.

They have shown this repeatedly in crime dramas - the person who is protecting the killer out of love for the killer. The mother who protects her son, the brother who protects his sister, the father who protects his child. If the son, sister, or child is out there killing people, and the protector knows this (or has good reason to suspect it) and fails to do something to stop it, then the protector is guilty of the deaths. I hold no pity for these people who choose to let their loved ones go on killing.

Mourning those innocent lives after the fact would not change this. It would be cold comfort to the dead, or their relatives, to know that the man who could have saved them was very sad that they had died. I don't belittle his feelings, and I realize that they are genuine - in fact, I honor Vash for being as empathic as he is - but empathy is not enough. Empathy cannot erase the stain of blood on his hands.

Again, I'm not saying that this isn't a huge, traumatic decision for him, or that it's not, perhaps, something that he emotionally cannot bring himself to do. But that is a moral failing, and (if indeed he was mature enough at the time to be culpable) his failure to act puts his choices on the side of evil, not good.

[Wackadoo]

I give the series a 8/10. The way Vash goes from Zero to Hero is pretty funny, and those 2 chicks, well, Vash couldn't have had any better sidekicks.

[mercer_sensei]

I give the series a 9/10 good action, interesting story, fairly deep characters, all in all, good

I havent seen the movie yet, but Id like to

[jsc315]

well of no one has seen the movie. it was announced that it was going to be made only like a month or so ago.

[mercer_sensei]

lol, maybe thats why I havent seen it yet, I didnt know

[Gaarakiller]

ive only read some of the manga.
D: