(OT) And, In Conclusion -- Star Wars - The Clone Wars

"SpaceGirl" <nothespacegirlspam@subhuman.net> wrote in message
news:6gqoscFh05hoU1@mid.individual.net...[color=blue]
> Pete Holland Jr. wrote:[color=green][color=darkred]
>>> Well I liked the review :) thank for sharing, I wouldn't have caught it
>>> if you had posted it anywhere else. I've read a few movie magazine
>>> reviews that predictability drooled *sigh* but I suspected it was going
>>> to be terrible. There was a trailer for it before Wall-E, which I
>>> finally got to see last night. I actually *cringed* at the dialog. I'll
>>> pretty much consume any movie, but I rarely think I trailer is so bad I
>>> want to hide in my popcorn. It was on par with utterly awful trailer for
>>> High School Musical 3.[/color]
>>
>> Thank you for the compliment. I'm glad you enjoyed it.
>>
>> The strange thing is, I've gotten a couple of e-mails from friends who
>> say I didn't go far enough with the review. Considering the cheap
>> shots I've taken at Episodes 1 through 3 over the years, they were
>> expecting far more viciousness than what I posted. And these guys
>> loved Eps 1 - 3, and felt my opinions were completely off base. It
>> seems like this movie was a huge misfire, not just from a filmmaking
>> standpoint (as I was reviewing it) but from a "hearts and minds" fan
>> standpoint. It's almost like people WANT this movie to get nailed.[/color]
>
> Well from me just... apathy. I don't really care any more... although I
> like the Star Wars lego toys! :D
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>> Still, Wall-E saved the evening. One of the best movies I've seen in a
>>> long while.[/color]
>>
>> Oh, I loved Wall-E. Isn't it interesting that the filmmakers who are
>> really grabbing audiences all cut their teeth outside the studio
>> system? Pixar was a maverick that successfully retained their
>> maverick status. Chistopher Nolan started with Momento. Peter
>> Jackson started in B movies. Sam Raimi started in B movies. The
>> people that learned how to entertain audiences because they had to,
>> because they couldn't fall back on fancy visuals and such because they
>> couldn't afford it, are the ones who are making the movies that stick
>> with you.[/color]
>
> Yes, it's very interesting. There are just a few other directors I really
> like; Ridley Scott, but only when he remembers he's a visionary, not a
> studio-hired drone, Guillermo Del Toro who seems to make movies stolen
> from my childhood nightmares and Terry Gilliam, who's imagination
> outstrips any amount of money a studio is willing to cough up (and some of
> the worst luck of any director on the planet).
>
> I'm not sure I rate Sam Raimi any more; he had his moments, but the
> Spiderman movies, IMO, utterly terrible. Especially the 3rd one, which
> should have never been made.
>
> Now to bring this back full circle; I'd love to see Scott direct say,
> Battle Angel Alita (he was connected to that once), or could you imagine a
> Del Toro Cowboy Bebop? Have Terry Gilliam's twisted mind make a live
> action Perfect Blue or Serial Experiments Lain.
>[/color]

Naw, naw, naw. Gilliam is a perfect match for Furi Curi. Drew Barrymore as
Haruko the Vespa woman and Lindsay Lohan as Mamimi.

"Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote in message
news:g897f9$t9l$1@registered.motzarella.org...[color=blue]
> Dave Baranyi wrote:[color=green]
>> "Pete Holland Jr." <peterg@uti.com> wrote in message
>> news:929278e6-f0b4-4469-9055-e5ba05497a95@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> Pete -
>>
>> Why here at r.a.a.m.? Can't you find other places that are more
>> appropriate?[/color]
>
> Because he does. It's also animated, which makes it less OT. And I enjoy
> reading his reviews.
>[/color]

The point is not the quality of Pete's reviews - the point is that Pete
reviews non-anime the majority of the time.

I would like to see more reviews of anime movies from Pete and other folks
here.

Off-Topic reviews will always be best located in venues where they are not
off-topic.

Dave Baranyi

> I don't always agree with what you say (for instance, you, like many[color=blue]
> deluded fans, put ESB above RotJ), but you write it well.[/color]

I'm glad you liked it. If we ever run into each other a con, we will
have to go somewhere and jaw about movies. Preferably someplace with
free refills, I can talk for hours. It's great to disagree without
the discussion turning ugly.

I gotta ask, though: you say RotJ was superior to Empire. Fill me
in. What makes you say that?
[color=blue]
> I really wanted to see this movie work. The Clone Wars animation series
> had been head-and-shoulders above all Lucas' later work (although, alas,
> inconsistent with the movies -- the Mace Windu of the series would've
> totally SCHOOLED the Palpatine of RotS). Would've been nice if the movie
> had matched that promise.[/color]

Genndy Tartakovsky's series? Oh, yeah. He "gets" it. When I first
heard of the Clone Wars movie for theaters, I did ask if they brought
him back, and that was when I learned the dreaded truth about what the
movie would be. Although, with a new Dark Crystal movie in pre-
production and him as director, I am SO there. Please, let that one
get a theatrical release!

// The point is not the quality of Pete's reviews - the point is that
Pete
// reviews non-anime the majority of the time. I would like to see
more
// reviews of anime movies from Pete and other folks here. Off-Topic
// reviews will always be best located in venues where they are not
// off-topic.

I was originally going to let your thread die out, but I will simply
state my case. There's no point in a discussion, you've stated your
position and we will obviously never see eye to eye on this, so in the
interest of balance, I will establish mine. Agree with it or disagree
with it, your choice.

Strap on your helmet, we're going in.

First of all, this board is for things of interest to anime fans, and
Star Wars and animation in general are definitely of interest to anime
fans, or at least the anime fans here, so while it was off topic, it
wasn't as off topic as if I wrote about, say, making jambalaya. There
are other boards where the terms of what is discussed are subject to
far more stringent standards (this is precisely the reason I hang out
on this board instead of the others). I would suggest that, if the
casual nature of the topics here is problematic, you go to the regular
rec.arts.anime or find a moderated forum that dovetails with your
interests. Likewise, if you are primarily interested in essay-type
reviews, there are websites, magazines, and electronic publications,
free and paid for, that have plenty of material. The freewheeling
nature of the topics is what makes this forum so popular.

Expecting people from here to subscribe to another Usenet channel just
to follow my writing someplace where it is on topic is unduly
burdensome because, in some of these environments, the noise is too
loud. I've tried writing to the movie discussion groups, but there
are so many posts (and I feel many of them miss the point), that
following a discussion there is not worth the effort. It's harder to
talk in a room of shouting people. And just thinking that I can talk
in a separate area and people from this board will rush to join it
just to read my opinions is absurdly laughable.

Second, Star Wars would tangentially qualify for discussion here. The
first film, New Hope, borrowed elements from the Japanese movie "The
Hidden Fortress" (Vader even references the movie in one of his
lines), and live action Japanese media is fair game here. Also, the
art director has said his aim was for anime-style art, so their goal
makes it fair game. People here discuss American attempts at anime.
I've seen discussions about Winx Club, Totally Spies, Avatar, and so
on.

Third, if anime is the only qualifier to discuss on this board, the
subjects narrow dramatically. For example, people catching up with
their friends here and talking about what's new in their lives would
also be considered off topic. I once wrote here, "It's so ironic, it
could cure pernicious anemia all by itself," and was taken to task for
my misunderstanding. I absolutely deserved it, but by the criteria
you are suggesting, no one should have said anything about it. Manga
and anime share their art style and story subjects, but they are still
separated by their media, print versus electronic. It is picking a
nit, but it can be argued that this is anime, not manga, and manga has
no place in the discussions here. And if you say anime is inspired by
manga, so manga is allowed, that opens up the discussions again.

Finally, there are plenty of on topic discussions here already. If
you don't feel there are enough, then don't wait for someone else to
start a discussion. Throw out some topics to get people talking, like
when I asked which vehicle was better, the Mach 5 or the Mark III.
Ask for opinions about an anime you are interested in watching, like I
did about Inu Yasha. And if no one responds to something you wrote,
come up with something more interesting. If off topic bothers you,
just ignore it. I've said my reviews are opinion and not binding
arbitration -- you are not obligated to see or like a movie based on
my say-so. Likewise, you are not obligated to read posts my posts,
and you can use any criteria you choose, be it off topic or you
disagree with me too much or you don't like me using my name instead
of a handle or whatever, to reject it. If you can't just ignore a
thread going in a direction you don't like, then put OT and/or whoever
it is that is bugging you in your twit filter. So lately I've written
more about non-anime stuff than anime stuff. Well, that's what's
grabbing my interest at the moment. Give me time, and I'll be tipping
the scales the other way again, but it'll be when I've found something
interesting that I want to talk about.

On Aug 17, 9:11 am, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"
<seaw...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
> I don't always agree with what you say (for instance, you, like many
> deluded fans, put ESB above RotJ)[/color]

*Giggles*

Honestly I don't agree with many people's reasons for hating RotJ--
a lot of them seem of the "well I couldn't come up with a REAL
reason so I'll just say this" variety. The Boba Fett thing for
example.

"Pete Holland Jr." <peterg@uti.com> wrote in message
news:80a37e9d-6b8f-4b34-b37e-eb0df5dc3ed4@r66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> // The point is not the quality of Pete's reviews - the point is that
> Pete
> // reviews non-anime the majority of the time. I would like to see
> more
> // reviews of anime movies from Pete and other folks here. Off-Topic
> // reviews will always be best located in venues where they are not
> // off-topic.
>
> I was originally going to let your thread die out, but I will simply
> state my case. There's no point in a discussion, you've stated your
> position and we will obviously never see eye to eye on this, so in the
> interest of balance, I will establish mine. Agree with it or disagree
> with it, your choice.
>
> Strap on your helmet, we're going in.
>
> First of all, this board is for things of interest to anime fans, and
> Star Wars and animation in general are definitely of interest to anime
> fans, or at least the anime fans here,[/color]

I'm curious as to how you came to that conclusion; "...definitely of
interest to anime fans, or at least the anime fans here..." That is a very
strong statement. How do you support it?
[color=blue]
>so while it was off topic, it
> wasn't as off topic as if I wrote about, say, making jambalaya. There
> are other boards where the terms of what is discussed are subject to
> far more stringent standards (this is precisely the reason I hang out
> on this board instead of the others). I would suggest that, if the
> casual nature of the topics here is problematic, you go to the regular
> rec.arts.anime or find a moderated forum that dovetails with your
> interests. Likewise, if you are primarily interested in essay-type
> reviews, there are websites, magazines, and electronic publications,
> free and paid for, that have plenty of material. The freewheeling
> nature of the topics is what makes this forum so popular.
>[/color]

My interests are in the discussion of anime. That's why I come to r.a.a.m. .
I'd be very interested to hear from other folks at r.a.a.m. as to why they
come here, and how many come here to read off-topic discussions.
[color=blue]
> Expecting people from here to subscribe to another Usenet channel just
> to follow my writing someplace where it is on topic is unduly
> burdensome because, in some of these environments, the noise is too
> loud. I've tried writing to the movie discussion groups, but there
> are so many posts (and I feel many of them miss the point), that
> following a discussion there is not worth the effort. It's harder to
> talk in a room of shouting people.[/color]

So are you saying that you post off-topic in r.a.a.m. because you find it
easier to get a response to your off-topic posts than you do in on-topic
forums? I don't think that is something that I would personally be proud of.
[color=blue]
> And just thinking that I can talk
> in a separate area and people from this board will rush to join it
> just to read my opinions is absurdly laughable.
>[/color]

If people like how you write, they will go to where you write it. Look at
Professor "Elsie's" blog for an example.
[color=blue]
> Second, Star Wars would tangentially qualify for discussion here. The
> first film, New Hope, borrowed elements from the Japanese movie "The
> Hidden Fortress" (Vader even references the movie in one of his
> lines), and live action Japanese media is fair game here. Also, the
> art director has said his aim was for anime-style art, so their goal
> makes it fair game. People here discuss American attempts at anime.
> I've seen discussions about Winx Club, Totally Spies, Avatar, and so
> on.
>[/color]

Just because other people go off topic it doesn't make it more legitimate.
[color=blue]
> Third, if anime is the only qualifier to discuss on this board, the
> subjects narrow dramatically.[/color]

That's what it is supposed to be - this is "rec.arts.anime.misc", not
"rec.arts.misc.and-the-occasional-bit-of-anime".
[color=blue]
> For example, people catching up with
> their friends here and talking about what's new in their lives would
> also be considered off topic. I once wrote here, "It's so ironic, it
> could cure pernicious anemia all by itself," and was taken to task for
> my misunderstanding. I absolutely deserved it, but by the criteria
> you are suggesting, no one should have said anything about it. Manga
> and anime share their art style and story subjects, but they are still
> separated by their media, print versus electronic. It is picking a
> nit, but it can be argued that this is anime, not manga, and manga has
> no place in the discussions here. And if you say anime is inspired by
> manga, so manga is allowed, that opens up the discussions again.
>[/color]

In what way is reference to manga that spawned anime, or manga that were
spawned by anime, off-topic in an anime newsgroup?
[color=blue]
> Finally, there are plenty of on topic discussions here already. If
> you don't feel there are enough, then don't wait for someone else to
> start a discussion. Throw out some topics to get people talking, like
> when I asked which vehicle was better, the Mach 5 or the Mark III.
> Ask for opinions about an anime you are interested in watching, like I
> did about Inu Yasha. And if no one responds to something you wrote,
> come up with something more interesting. If off topic bothers you,
> just ignore it. I've said my reviews are opinion and not binding
> arbitration -- you are not obligated to see or like a movie based on
> my say-so. Likewise, you are not obligated to read posts my posts,
> and you can use any criteria you choose, be it off topic or you
> disagree with me too much or you don't like me using my name instead
> of a handle or whatever, to reject it. If you can't just ignore a
> thread going in a direction you don't like, then put OT and/or whoever
> it is that is bugging you in your twit filter. So lately I've written
> more about non-anime stuff than anime stuff. Well, that's what's
> grabbing my interest at the moment.[/color]

Fishing is grabbing my interest at this time. I've actually caught many of
the species of fish that are caught by the characters in the various
episodes of the "Tsuribaka" anime. Does that make a discussion of the last
bass that I caught on-topic here at r.a.a.m.? Of course not, and it never
will. But "Tsuribaka" is a legitimate anime, based upon a long-running and
popular manga series, that spawned at least a dozen live action movies.
Never-the-less, discussions of fishing, even in the context of Tsuribaka,
are and always will be off-topic in r.a.a.m. and absolutely should be.
[color=blue]
> Give me time, and I'll be tipping
> the scales the other way again, but it'll be when I've found something
> interesting that I want to talk about.[/color]

Okay, here is your chance - what anime are you currently following - new,
old or whatever?

Dave Baranyi

Pete Holland Jr. wrote:[color=blue]
>
> Strap on your helmet, we're going in.
>
> First of all, this board is for things of interest to anime fans,[/color]

Like anime.
[color=blue]
> and Star Wars and animation in general are definitely of interest to anime
> fans, or at least the anime fans here, so while it was off topic, it
> wasn't as off topic as if I wrote about, say, making jambalaya.[/color]

"Not AS" still "IS".
In the same way that falling off a 100 foot cliff isn't falling "as
much" as off a 300 foot one.
[color=blue]
> There are other boards where the terms of what is discussed are subject to
> far more stringent standards (this is precisely the reason I hang out
> on this board instead of the others). I would suggest that, if the
> casual nature of the topics here is problematic, you go to the regular
> rec.arts.anime or find a moderated forum that dovetails with your
> interests.[/color]

Or the trolls say, "If you don't like my posts so much, why don'tcha
just killfile me, nyeh!"
[color=blue]
> I've tried writing to the movie discussion groups, but there
> are so many posts (and I feel many of them miss the point), that
> following a discussion there is not worth the effort.[/color]

Well, why *not* post it in rec.recipes, then?
[color=blue]
> Second, Star Wars would tangentially qualify for discussion here.[/color]

And if you want to borrow the Gonzalez Defense, was it mentioned in a
comic strip, too? ;)
[color=blue]
> The
> first film, New Hope, borrowed elements from the Japanese movie "The
> Hidden Fortress" (Vader even references the movie in one of his
> lines), and live action Japanese media is fair game here.[/color]

(But can you connect it to Kevin Bacon in three or less?)
[color=blue]
> Finally, there are plenty of on topic discussions here already. If
> you don't feel there are enough, then don't wait for someone else to
> start a discussion.[/color]

Routine Numba' #23, The Ol' Switcheroo! ^_^
Uh, it wasn't OUR lack of topic discussions we were talking about, now,
was it?

Derek Janssen
[email]ejanss1@verizon.net[/email]

Could we have something along the lines of a vote about this? As a
repeat offender, I think I for one would be more convinced to quit it if
I really knew it was ticking off a LOT of people, and not just a handful
who, for some reason or other, just can't stand skipping over an (OT)
header........like most people, I don't like being considered a jerk, I
just don't see where the harm is if it's clearly tagged.



IF anyone who caught my OT post about those ridiculously expensive
melons in Japan a couple of months ago can say that the few seconds it
took to read it were utterly wasted, please say so.........

Mark Jones wrote:
[color=blue]
> Could we have something along the lines of a vote about this? As a
> repeat offender, I think I for one would be more convinced to quit it if
> I really knew it was ticking off a LOT of people, and not just a handful
> who, for some reason or other, just can't stand skipping over an (OT)
> header........like most people, I don't like being considered a jerk, I
> just don't see where the harm is if it's clearly tagged.[/color]

Well, you're at least *trying* to be a jerk, and failing... ;)

As opposed to that most unkillable of group pests, someone who honestly,
naively, truly, and with unstoppable DEDICATION believes that his
private off-time geek and hobby brainfart posts are somehow topic
related, if he can fit them in out of "courtesy" ("Dark Knight is wicked
cool!...Oh, and they made an anime of it, too.")--
As well as reacting to criticism by believing he has some some small
cache of cult fans who *want* to come here to talk about it, and he'll
be content to play with his own lil' pals if the rest of us don't want to.

Simply put, have *YOU* ever had a real-life face-to-face conversation
with someone who tried to fit his own interests in regardless of the
discussion?
(Yes, nobody likes having a door shut in their face, but
y'know...Sometimes a little criticism is good for us.)

Derek Janssen (keeps us focused)
ejanss1@verzi

Derek Janssen wrote:[color=blue]
>
> As opposed to that most unkillable of group pests, someone who honestly,
> naively, truly, and with unstoppable DEDICATION believes that his
> private off-time geek and hobby brainfart posts are somehow topic
> related, if he can fit them in out of "courtesy" ("Dark Knight is wicked
> cool!...Oh, and they made an anime of it, too.")--
> As well as reacting to criticism by believing he has some some small
> cache of cult fans who *want* to come here to talk about it, and he'll
> be content to play with his own lil' pals if the rest of us don't want to.[/color]

(And, to employ psychic powers, and predict's Pete's NEXT response, the
above is usually made even more unkillable by his belief that as long as
he *tells* us his post might be off-topic, the disclaimer instantly
becomes Sir Lancelot's Magic Shield, which protects the user from all
harm and blame, and grants universal Usenet-wide carte blanche to post
upon any brain synapse that may happen to fire:
"'[OT]'!...See, see, look I put '[OT]' in the header!--Kings-X, I had my
fingers crossed! I claim Diplomatic Immunity, I'm a political refugee,
and I've got my hands over my eyes; you can't touch this, lalala... :-p "

Derek Janssen
[email]ejanss1@verizon.net[/email]