A potentially unpopular opinion

In article <250220081107248882%invid@localnet.com>,
Invid Fan <invid@localnet.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
> They not only marketed to non-hardcore fans, but pushed
> anime into video rental stores and kept lowering the prices.[/color]

One objection was the lack of subtitled releases. Akira was subbed after
considerable fan request. Doomed Megalopolis many years later.

His work on the original re-dub of My Neighbor Totoro is great. He told
me in a conversation we had several years ago that he was given plenty
of time and a good budget to do it.

If you ever get a chance to hear Macek speak do so. He is a great
storyteller and very funny.

Me I prefer my anime, uncut in Japanese with a good subtitle script.

--
Gilles Poitras
Profession: Librarian Obsession: Anime
[url]http://www.koyagi.com[/url] -*cowpunk@koyagi.com
[url]http://gillespoitras.blogspot.com/[/url]

"8-Bit Star" <nesstar@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:40f2dcb8-7a79-43aa-983f-a8c74f97116d@p43g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> Carl Macek's dubs were actually pretty good, and I do not
> understand why, in this post-4Kids day and age, Macek is
> still occassionally held up as the quintessential example
> of the "Bad Dub."
>[/color]
For those of who don't know who Carl Macek is, what shows has he dubbed.
From your post, it looks like he dubbed "older stuff."

What role was he in the dubs. Was he the producer, as in he gets together
all the talent, such as the translator, the VA's, etc. Was he the actual
translator as well?

Does (or did) he work for one of the "dubbing companies" like Funimation (I
guess they would currently be the biggest), or does he run his own company?

Brian Christiansen

In article <bbe4s397hid54v8sslcseickn8e32k19kc@4ax.com>,
David Johnston <david@block.net> wrote:[color=blue]
> On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 19:40:30 -0800 (PST), 8-Bit Star
> <nesstar@gmail.com> wrote:[/color]
[color=blue][color=green]
> >Carl Macek's dubs were actually pretty good, and I do not
> >understand why, in this post-4Kids day and age, Macek is
> >still occassionally held up as the quintessential example
> >of the "Bad Dub."[/color][/color]
[color=blue]
> He changed the plot of Robotech/Macross.[/color]

I suppose it's all relative. Yes, he changed the plot, edited chunks of
different anime together and so forth to make Robotech, but is that better
or worse than, say, Sandy Frank and the loathsome 7-Zark-7 inserts and
clumsy dialogue of Battle of the Planets? Or worse than the possibly more
accurate but far less appealing Urusei Yatsura dubs that young master
Woodhead perpetrated all those years ago? And that's before we even get to
comparing it with some of the more modern dubs with their somewhat dubious
(on occasion) casting and (sometimes) questionable dialogue.

It's all subjective. Even the sub only/original language fans don't get
out of it free, as some seiyuu casting is just as questionable. Macek was
only following the exec herd of the day (the US viewing public won't buy
it subtitled, etc.) I may not agree with what he did, and I certainly
don't like the result, but I can see why he did it.

--
//\ // Chika <miyuki><at><crashnet><org><uk>
// \// "Word to the wise guy; be nice or be dog food!"

.... Are those cookies made with real Girl Scouts?

In article <bQCwj.13531$Ej5.3596@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>,
Brian Christiansen <brian_christians@hotmail.com> wrote:[color=blue]
> "8-Bit Star" <nesstar@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:40f2dcb8-7a79-43aa-983f-a8c74f97116d@p43g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...[color=green]
> > Carl Macek's dubs were actually pretty good, and I do not
> > understand why, in this post-4Kids day and age, Macek is
> > still occassionally held up as the quintessential example
> > of the "Bad Dub."
> >[/color]
> For those of who don't know who Carl Macek is, what shows has he dubbed.
> From your post, it looks like he dubbed "older stuff."[/color]

Indeed. As already mentioned, he was behind the Harmony Gold dub of
Robotech, which was essentially Macross with chunks of Southern Cross and
Mospeada in it. He later became known for the dubs produced via the
Streamline Pictures company, notable for the release of such titles as
Akira and Dirty Pair, amongst other things. The last thing I saw or heard
of him was his commentary on Heavy Metal.
[color=blue]
> What role was he in the dubs. Was he the producer, as in he gets
> together all the talent, such as the translator, the VA's, etc. Was he
> the actual translator as well?[/color]

He was more involved in the production side of things, as I recall.
[color=blue]
> Does (or did) he work for one of the "dubbing companies" like Funimation
> (I guess they would currently be the biggest), or does he run his own
> company?[/color]

ISTR he was connected with Nelvana at one time, but I couldn't swear to
it. The titles he was connected with back in the Streamline Pictures days
were all sold off or deleted a few years back (have a look through this
groups' archives for details).

--
//\ // Chika <miyuki><at><crashnet><org><uk>
// \// "Word to the wise guy; be nice or be dog food!"

.... As easy as 3.14159265358979323846264338327950288419716...

In article <4f76c8465fmiyuki@no.spam.here>, Chika
<miyuki@spam-no-way.invalid> wrote:
[color=blue]
> In article <bQCwj.13531$Ej5.3596@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>,
> Brian Christiansen <brian_christians@hotmail.com> wrote:[color=green]
> > "8-Bit Star" <nesstar@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:40f2dcb8-7a79-43aa-983f-a8c74f97116d@p43g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...[color=darkred]
> > > Carl Macek's dubs were actually pretty good, and I do not
> > > understand why, in this post-4Kids day and age, Macek is
> > > still occassionally held up as the quintessential example
> > > of the "Bad Dub."
> > >[/color]
> > For those of who don't know who Carl Macek is, what shows has he dubbed.
> > From your post, it looks like he dubbed "older stuff."[/color]
>
> Indeed. As already mentioned, he was behind the Harmony Gold dub of
> Robotech, which was essentially Macross with chunks of Southern Cross and
> Mospeada in it. He later became known for the dubs produced via the
> Streamline Pictures company, notable for the release of such titles as
> Akira and Dirty Pair, amongst other things. The last thing I saw or heard
> of him was his commentary on Heavy Metal.
>[/color]
He had nothing to do with the dubbing of Akira, though. He worked with
ADV for awhile, when they picked up older Streamline titles like
Megazone 23, Nadia, and Doomed Megalopolis. He did the dub for their
release of Dunbine.
[color=blue][color=green]
> > What role was he in the dubs. Was he the producer, as in he gets
> > together all the talent, such as the translator, the VA's, etc. Was he
> > the actual translator as well?[/color]
>
> He was more involved in the production side of things, as I recall.
>[/color]
He directed the VAs, and worked on turning the rough translations of
scripts into useable dub scripts. From what it looks like, mostly they
were working from translations of Japanese shooting scripts as opposed
to translating the spoken dialog (subtitled film prints of their movies
which floated around college film festivals are missing line of dialog,
as does the Image DVD release of Megazone 23 Part 1 which uses the same
sub script)
[color=blue][color=green]
> > Does (or did) he work for one of the "dubbing companies" like Funimation
> > (I guess they would currently be the biggest), or does he run his own
> > company?[/color]
>
> ISTR he was connected with Nelvana at one time, but I couldn't swear to
> it. The titles he was connected with back in the Streamline Pictures days
> were all sold off or deleted a few years back (have a look through this
> groups' archives for details).[/color]

The titles were in limbo for awhile, when Orion fell apart (they had
picked up distribution near the end of the Streamline era). Most have
found a new home, with Robot Carnival and Zillion being two exceptions
I can think of.

--
Chris Mack "Refugee, total shit. That's how I've always seen us.
'Invid Fan' Not a help, you'll admit, to agreement between us."
-'Deal/No Deal', CHESS

In article <Xns9A4F50EB8CEAFfreezer88hotmailcom@194.177.96.26>, Freezer
<freezer88@hotSPAMTHISmail.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
> If I don't respond to this 8-Bit Star post, the terrorists win.
>[color=green]
> > Carl Macek's dubs were actually pretty good, and I do not
> > understand why, in this post-4Kids day and age, Macek is
> > still occassionally held up as the quintessential example
> > of the "Bad Dub."[/color]
>
> <snippage>
>
> "Not as bad as people say" and/or "At least it's not 4Kids" is as far
> as I'm willing to go in defence of the man who inspired the term
> "Macekre". ([url]http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/MAin/Macekre[/url])[/color]

Gee, a term I've never heard in 20+ years of fandom :)

--
Chris Mack "Refugee, total shit. That's how I've always seen us.
'Invid Fan' Not a help, you'll admit, to agreement between us."
-'Deal/No Deal', CHESS

8-Bit Star wrote:[color=blue]
> Carl Macek's dubs were actually pretty good, and I do not
> understand why, in this post-4Kids day and age, Macek is
> still occassionally held up as the quintessential example
> of the "Bad Dub."
>
> Reasons Macek's dubs were good:
>
> 1. Macek was a fan, not just some guy who got in for the
> money. He usually understood what the creators were
> going for, and usually did a durn good job translating that
> message.
>
> 2. His translations, while not necesarily as word-for-word
> "accurate" as some would've liked, were at least natural-
> sounding when spoken by humans. There are rarely any
> instances in a Macek dub where I think "no human being
> would say that."
>
> 3. The voice actors he chose, usually, could actually ACT...
> unlike 99.9% of the anime VAs out there.
>
> 4. When Macek made a change, there was a reason for it.
> It was never totally pointless like in most dubs.
>
> 5. He was good at matching voices to the characters. You
> never had the "five-year-old girl who sounds forty" syndrome
> like you do with some other people.
>
> 6. When a Macek production replaced the Japanese music
> with American music, the American music was usually just
> as good (both in matching the show and in just plain being
> good) as the original Japanese music... and in a few cases,
> was actually better (in my opinion).
>
> And that's my case.
>[/color]

(looks around carefully, makes sure the coast is clear . . . )

As far as the one dub by him I have heard, The Castle of Cagliostro, I
have to agree with this assessment.

---Dave

David Johnston <david@block.net> wrote:[color=blue]
> He changed the plot of Robotech/Macross.[/color]

Yes, but out of necessity, not desire.

Macek's original plan was to bring Macross over to the US. Unfortunately,
at that time, TV stations were only interested in a show if it had more
than 65 or so episodes. Macross, at 36, obviously didn't make the cut.

Robotech was not the first instance of 2 different shows being glommed
together. The show we Americans know as Voltron was actually 2 separate,
unrelated shows in Japan, as was the horror that was...Macron 1. (believe
it or not, Macron 1 was actually an IMPROVEMENT for one of the shows
making up Macron 1...)


Even so, Macross, and Mospeada for that matter, were left largely intact.
The largest change made was "what is protoculture". In Macross, it's the
race of people who created the Zentraedi, Meltraendi, and later,
Humanity. In Robotech, it's Intergalactic Pot. Only Southern Cross
underwent some massive changes - such as now taking place on Earth, the
whole Zor Lord/Robotech Master makeover, Dana Sterling is now blonde (when
she was obviously green haired as a baby in Macross), etc. etc.

Overall, the rewrite works very well with the source material. It could
have been worse...as in Macron 1, or Cardcaptors worse.

--
It's not broken. It's...advanced.

Blade wrote:[color=blue]
> "David Johnston" <david@block.net> wrote in message
> news:bbe4s397hid54v8sslcseickn8e32k19kc@4ax.com...[color=green]
>> On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 19:40:30 -0800 (PST), 8-Bit Star
>> <nesstar@gmail.com> wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>> Carl Macek's dubs were actually pretty good, and I do not
>>> understand why, in this post-4Kids day and age, Macek is
>>> still occassionally held up as the quintessential example
>>> of the "Bad Dub."[/color]
>>
>> He changed the plot of Robotech/Macross.[/color]
>
> Most of the people in North America who care about Macross do so only
> because of Robotech. To say nothing of the fact most people would
> never have heard of Southern Cross or Mospaeda without it. The
> existence of new Robotech material after two decades is proof enough
> that he was doing something right.[/color]

It's important to keep things in perspective. The fact is, he raped
Macross/Mospeda/Southern Cross. The fact also is, that the industry
probably would not be the same right now, had he not done so. The fact that
good came out of it, and even that it was done for good reason, doesn't
change the fact that it was, by most standards, an abortion of an import.

"sanjian" <mungkb@vt.edu> wrote in message
news:fpv95a$1kb$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu...[color=blue]
> Blade wrote:[color=green]
>> "David Johnston" <david@block.net> wrote in message
>> news:bbe4s397hid54v8sslcseickn8e32k19kc@4ax.com...[color=darkred]
>>> On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 19:40:30 -0800 (PST), 8-Bit Star
>>> <nesstar@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Carl Macek's dubs were actually pretty good, and I do not
>>>> understand why, in this post-4Kids day and age, Macek is
>>>> still occassionally held up as the quintessential example
>>>> of the "Bad Dub."
>>>
>>> He changed the plot of Robotech/Macross.[/color]
>>
>> Most of the people in North America who care about Macross do so only
>> because of Robotech. To say nothing of the fact most people would
>> never have heard of Southern Cross or Mospaeda without it. The
>> existence of new Robotech material after two decades is proof enough
>> that he was doing something right.[/color]
>
> It's important to keep things in perspective. The fact is, he raped
> Macross/Mospeda/Southern Cross. The fact also is, that the industry
> probably would not be the same right now, had he not done so. The fact
> that good came out of it, and even that it was done for good reason,
> doesn't change the fact that it was, by most standards, an abortion of an
> import.[/color]

By the standards of the late 70s and early 80s, it was not. Which I think
are the only standards which are really appropriate.

-
Blade
(Also, aren't "rape" and "abortion" kind of harsh words for the translation
of a cartoon?)