A potentially unpopular opinion

Blade wrote:
[color=blue]
> (Also, aren't "rape" and "abortion" kind of harsh words for the
> translation of a cartoon?)[/color]

No more than they are harsh words for the translation of anything else.
The medium - in this case, animation - is irrelevant to the value of the
content.

I personally tend to agree with the perspective which would use such
words about the treatment of various shows in their English
'translation', but I don't have the arguments to back that up right now,
and frankly I don't have the time to spend trying to come up with them.

--
The Wanderer

My usual .sig is on vacation while I adjust to my new computer

On Feb 25, 2:40 pm, "sanjian" <mun...@vt.edu> wrote:
[color=blue]
> It's important to keep things in perspective. The fact is, he raped
> Macross/Mospeda/Southern Cross.[/color]

I bet there's tapes of that in the hentai section.

Seriously though... having seen both Macross and Robotech,
the two shows aren't THAT different, plot, character, or theme-wise.
I've heard the same is true of Mospeada.

Southern Cross was supposedly butchered up the wazoo... but
one thing to remember about SC is that nobody would even
remember the show today if not for Robotech. SC was an
abject failure in Japan, then the Robotech dub gave it some
level of popularity.

The "standards" for being "an abortion of an import" really
need to be retooled, because as it is, it seems like the
only kind of translation that isn't an "abortion" is the kind
where they take the Japanese script, and replace the words
with their English equivalents.

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 15:40:39 -0500, "sanjian" <mungkb@vt.edu> wrote:

<snip>
[color=blue]
>It's important to keep things in perspective. The fact is, he raped
>Macross/Mospeda/Southern Cross.[/color]

What was that about keeping things in perspective?

It's a cartoon. (Okay, it's three cartoons, which had to be connected
somehow in order to get aired on North American TV at all.)

It isn't as if he went out and *hurt* someone...

<snip>

--
Rob Kelk <http://robkelk.ottawa-anime.org/> e-mail: s/deadspam/gmail/
"They were engaged in a calm and dignified discussion of important
issues of the day. No, wait, that was somebody else. *These* two
were all but screaming at each other at the tops of their lungs."
- from "Drunkard's Walk V/Oh My Brother II"

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 17:23:19 GMT, "Brian Christiansen"
<brian_christians@hotmail.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>"8-Bit Star" <nesstar@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:40f2dcb8-7a79-43aa-983f-a8c74f97116d@p43g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...[color=green]
>> Carl Macek's dubs were actually pretty good, and I do not
>> understand why, in this post-4Kids day and age, Macek is
>> still occassionally held up as the quintessential example
>> of the "Bad Dub."
>>[/color]
>For those of who don't know who Carl Macek is, what shows has he dubbed.
>From your post, it looks like he dubbed "older stuff."
>
>What role was he in the dubs. Was he the producer, as in he gets together
>all the talent, such as the translator, the VA's, etc. Was he the actual
>translator as well?
>
>Does (or did) he work for one of the "dubbing companies" like Funimation (I
>guess they would currently be the biggest), or does he run his own company?
>
>Brian Christiansen[/color]

I'm grabbing information from
[url]http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/people.php?id=3952[/url] ...

On various titles, his credits include director, ADR director, ADR
script, producer, line producer, story editor, additional dialogue, and
adaptation. Oh, and he had a bit role in the "Nadesico" movie dub
(which he was otherwise not connected with).

--
Rob Kelk <http://robkelk.ottawa-anime.org/> e-mail: s/deadspam/gmail/
"I'm *not* a kid! Nyyyeaaah!" - Skuld (in "Oh My Goddess!" OAV #3)
"When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear
of childishness and the desire to be very grown-up." - C.S. Lewis

8-Bit Star wrote:
[color=blue]
> On Feb 25, 2:40 pm, "sanjian" <mun...@vt.edu> wrote:
>
>[color=green]
>>It's important to keep things in perspective. The fact is, he raped
>>Macross/Mospeda/Southern Cross.[/color]
>
> Seriously though... having seen both Macross and Robotech,
> the two shows aren't THAT different, plot, character, or theme-wise.
> I've heard the same is true of Mospeada.
>
> Southern Cross was supposedly butchered up the wazoo... but
> one thing to remember about SC is that nobody would even
> remember the show today if not for Robotech. SC was an
> abject failure in Japan, then the Robotech dub gave it some
> level of popularity.[/color]

The entire RoboMacross canon encyclopedia had to be altered to let Max
and Milia have one MORE child, just because Carl couldn't figure out how
to plausibly bridge his way into "Southern Cross".

Thanks, Carl. We love large families.

Derek janssen
[email]ejanss1@verizon.net[/email]

On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 19:40:30 -0800, 8-Bit Star wrote:[color=blue]
> 4. When Macek made a change, there was a reason for it. It was never
> totally pointless like in most dubs.[/color]

Not entirely true. There are instances where he added dialogue where
there originally was none.

On the flip side, I think he is a terrible ADR director. The critical
example is "Divergence Eve". Same casts beginning to end; the only
difference is that Macek directed the first 9 episodes of the show and
then left it to work on Dunbine (IIRC). Admittedly, the first half of the
show is rather weak, but even so he simply didn't get as good performances
out of the cast as Sandra Krasa did for the remaining 4 episodes, or Scott
McClennen with "Misaki Chronicles".

He also got rather wooden performances out of the Dunbine cast, most of
whom I've heard in other roles giving much better performances.

On Feb 25, 6:21 pm, Stainless Steel Rat <rati...@newsguy.com> wrote:[color=blue]
> On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 19:40:30 -0800, 8-Bit Star wrote:[color=green]
> > 4. When Macek made a change, there was a reason for it. It was never
> > totally pointless like in most dubs.[/color]
>
> Not entirely true. There are instances where he added dialogue where
> there originally was none.[/color]

That doesn't mean there wasn't a point to it.

In article
<37f983f1-ccf1-474e-ab8a-a00d70c09aee@o10g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
8-Bit Star <nesstar@gmail.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
> On Feb 25, 6:21 pm, Stainless Steel Rat <rati...@newsguy.com> wrote:[color=green]
> > On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 19:40:30 -0800, 8-Bit Star wrote:[color=darkred]
> > > 4. When Macek made a change, there was a reason for it. It was never
> > > totally pointless like in most dubs.[/color]
> >
> > Not entirely true. There are instances where he added dialogue where
> > there originally was none.[/color]
>
> That doesn't mean there wasn't a point to it.[/color]

But no change is "pointless", as the person doing it always has a
reason even if it's only "I hate this show and its fans" or "we have to
clear out of the studio in 10 minutes, just invent a line you can
pronounce".

--
Chris Mack "Refugee, total shit. That's how I've always seen us.
'Invid Fan' Not a help, you'll admit, to agreement between us."
-'Deal/No Deal', CHESS

Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
[color=blue]
> On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 19:40:30 -0800, 8-Bit Star wrote:
>[color=green]
>>4. When Macek made a change, there was a reason for it. It was never
>>totally pointless like in most dubs.[/color]
>
>
> Not entirely true. There are instances where he added dialogue where
> there originally was none.[/color]

Speaking of which, does anyone KNOW what was the original dialogue in
Robot Carnival's "Tale of Two Robots"?
[color=blue]
> He also got rather wooden performances out of the Dunbine cast, most of
> whom I've heard in other roles giving much better performances.[/color]

It was standard dubs (the "woodenness", in fact, went with the 80's
Streamline-era animation pretty well)...

But actually, Macek's phobia of subtlety may have HELPED ADV's Dunbine
dub:
If you listened to the dub with the subtitles on, most of the original
"fantasy epic" dialogue in the subs seemed downright inscrutable, with
Macek's dub "translation" clearing it up for the unaccustomed viewer--

Eg., "Drake's dreams of glory may extend far beyond the frontier", for
ex., would become "He's planning to take over the castle, and he won't
stop there!"

Derek Janssen (....OHHHhhhh! ^o^ )
[email]ejanss1@verizon.net[/email]

8-Bit Star <nesstar@gmail.com> wrote on Sun 24 Feb 2008 09:40:30p:
[color=blue]
> Carl Macek's dubs were actually pretty good, and I do not
> understand why, in this post-4Kids day and age, Macek is
> still occassionally held up as the quintessential example
> of the "Bad Dub."
>
> Reasons Macek's dubs were good:
>
> 1. Macek was a fan, not just some guy who got in for the
> money. He usually understood what the creators were
> going for, and usually did a durn good job translating that
> message.
>
> 2. His translations, while not necesarily as word-for-word
> "accurate" as some would've liked, were at least natural-
> sounding when spoken by humans. There are rarely any
> instances in a Macek dub where I think "no human being
> would say that."
>
> 3. The voice actors he chose, usually, could actually ACT...
> unlike 99.9% of the anime VAs out there.
>
> 4. When Macek made a change, there was a reason for it.
> It was never totally pointless like in most dubs.
>
> 5. He was good at matching voices to the characters. You
> never had the "five-year-old girl who sounds forty" syndrome
> like you do with some other people.
>
> 6. When a Macek production replaced the Japanese music
> with American music, the American music was usually just
> as good (both in matching the show and in just plain being
> good) as the original Japanese music... and in a few cases,
> was actually better (in my opinion).
>
> And that's my case.[/color]

Surprised no one mentioned:

"Captain Harlock and the Queen of a Thousand Years"

Mixing both series in a simultaneous storyline, insted of trying the
Robotech tested formula of puting one story after the other

Saludos

--
Saludos
Gerardo Campos