Paradox In F/SN that were never explained

[bleachlover20053]

WARNING!!! the following might not make sense if one did not play the game

In fate stay night some of the things and rules that were stated never follow through so here are some of them that did not either: 1) never gave a proper explanation to and 2) unexplainedé impossible situations

The first I would like to bring up is the power distribution among the heroes/ anti-heroes/ non-existent heroes/ guardians. In the early episodes, it mentions that a Servant's power is dependent on one's status. Therefore the more popular and revered the hero was in the past, the stronger they are due to the recognition brought on by their peers. In that case the "Strength" of the Servants (excluding their noble phantasm) shoul be like the following:

Spoiler

1. Hercules - Berserker
2. Medusa - Rider
3. Arthur - Saber
4. Gilgamesh
5. Medea - Caster
6. Sasaki Kojiro - Assassin (despite being fake, the battle takes place in Japan where Sasaki Kojiro is famous)
7. Cu Chulainn - Lancer
*Emiya Shirou can be in any of these location technically because he is not a Guardian type Heroic Spirit)

Yet Gilgamesh is depicted as the strongest. He is indeed a very famous figure among the historians as one of the oldest kings recorded down in a written document, but no where is he as famous as Hercules and Medusa.

Second Paradox - Saber cannot die as she did in episode 24.

Spoiler

She explains (in the game very thoroughly) that she made a contract before she died that she would become a heroic spirit under one condition, that she receives the holy grail and wishes that the selection of the king be stopped. Therefore all the Saber position is reserved for the semi-dead Saber who is technically not a Heroic Spirit yet (she cannot go into spirit form because she is an incomplete servant, not because the contract she with Shirou made was bad). If touching the holy grail was the condition, then she had already fulfilled it in the previous war when she destroys it. But that was not the case and she had returned once again as a Saber class in the current war. And now that she destroyed it again, then one can assume that she will continue to repeat this process until she finally obtain the holy grail and make a wish, thereby completing the contract between the holy grail and her and becoming a full heroic spirit. Therefore she did not die at the end of ep 24, she is still technically cut off from the time frame and jumping to the future where she will participate in future Holy Grail War

[-Rene-]

It was in fact explained why Gilgamesh is the strongest.

Gilgamesh is the king of heroes, he existed in a time before all of the other heroes and before all of the noble phantasms brought on by those heroes. He collected all of the 'noble phantasms' and he possesses all of them. Because of him possessing all of the Noble Phantasms he naturally has a weapon in his GoB that can counter or exploit the weakness of the opposing servant. Above all he has such a massive amount of noble phantasms that nobody could possibly block them all.

For example in the Unlimited Blade Works route: (UBW Spoilers inside)

Spoiler

He uses the Enkidu chains to bind Berserker in place and to allow him to finish Berserker off. If he had not done this Berserker could have possibly reached him and killed him.

Gilgamesh his natural strength is to overwhelm people with Noble Phantasms. Nobody can take on a 1000 Noble Phantasms, not even Berserker who has 12 Lives to spare. However his natural enemy is Archer his Reality Marble. Gilgamesh his attacks are dependant on speed and even if his Noble Phantasms are the real thing, Archer his imitations are still strong enough to counter and deflect them. Above all UBW is faster than GoB because Gilgamesh actually has to look for the Noble Phantasms in his Gate, Archer simply has to think that they're flying straigth at Gilgamesh's head and they will be doing so. Because Gilgamesh is slower, Archer is the only servant who could beat Gilgamesh.

At the Saber thing:

Because we're dealing with Time Travel here it is very complex to say anything with certainty since Time Travel is largely shrouded in mystery. So for discussions sake lets not go too deep into the whole Time Travel thing.

The first mistake however is to assume that she HAD to make a wish using the Holy Grail. She asked the world in her last moments for a way to relive her life, a way to let a more suited person become king. The world saw the Holy Grail as the best way for her to do this so she is sent into any possible chance of obtaining the Holy Grail so that she can have her wish completed. However what if Saber realises that there was no more suited person who could have become king or what if she realises that even in the end, she was not a bad king. Shirou makes her do that during the Fate route. (on which the anime is built.)

Ofcourse it is just an assumption. But it would seem the most logical.

I hope I helped! :)

[bleachlover20053]

you make valid point there but once again, i stated above about the general strength being dependent on their popularity, so the exclusion of noble phantasms. In that sense Gilgamesh is really weak despite being a demi-god

and as for saber, it doesnt matter if she realizes she was the best king or not because it goes back to the fact that she made a contract with the holy grail, so unless she makes a wish, she is to repeat it over and over again

[-Rene-]

Originally Posted by bleachlover20053

you make valid point there but once again, i stated above about the general strength being dependent on their popularity, so the exclusion of noble phantasms. In that sense Gilgamesh is really weak despite being a demi-god

and as for saber, it doesnt matter if she realizes she was the best king or not because it goes back to the fact that she made a contract with the holy grail, so unless she makes a wish, she is to repeat it over and over again

The rule is: They recover an amount of strength from their original selves equal to how well they are known in the area they are summoned in.

So yes in direct Strength he is weaker. But Gilgamesh is depicted as the strongest exactly because of his Noble Phantasms. As explained in the game there are two types of Noble phantasms: A weaker but fast and continues one, like a machine gun and a missile, extremely powerful but only one use. You have to imagine Gilgamesh his Noble Phantasm like a Machine Gun that fires missiles.

In a match of skill with a single blade. He would lose even to Archer

---

Saber her request towards the world was not to have a wish granted by the Holy Grail. Her request to the world was to let her re-live her life and let a more appropriate king take her place because she believed she had failed as a king. The world simply saw the Holy Grail as an option to grant this.

[IIDeathtaker]

Haven't finished the anime yet so I'm not sure if it explains why but I played all the routes in the VN. The reason Saber finally dies and is erased from the time loop after destroying the holy grail the 2nd time and not the first time was because Shirou's father used his command spell to make her destroy it the first time. So it was against her will. The second time however she chose to destroy it and accepted that she would never use such a thing so her contract with the world was broken and she went back to her time frame and died for real. She may have became a guardian spirit after that since she was such a historical figure but she was no longer a *living* servant trying to get the holy grail to make someone else king. I'm pretty sure it explains this in the Fate route in one of the interludes near the end.

One loop-hole I saw on my own in the VN that really annoyed me is how noone notices Shirou's command seal. Sakura and Fuji-nee live with him in UBW and HF but neither of them seem to notice it even when they eat every night and sakura cooks with him. Issei doesn't notice either when they eat together in the student council room which seems really strange. I know its not invisible because thats one of the main problems of being a master is hiding your command seal. It mentions this multiple times throughout the Fate route.


Also to the OP's paradox of power distribution of the servants and how famous they are; it says in the VN that its a very minor change. Its more related to how strong they were in their life and what achievements they did and not just tied directly to how famous they were. Rider is weak because of Shinji being a crappy master. The servant's power is tied to how much energy input the master can provide. If you look at the stats of Saber in Fate route when she's Shirou's servant they are all Bs and Cs but when she becomes Tohsaka's in UBW she becomes mostly As and A+ because Tohsaka is a proper magus.

It doesn't say Gilgamesh is the strongest hes just the most dangerous because of his huge amount of noble phantasms / ability to counter any heroes weapon with its opposite. He has little experience in fighting and relies on just shooting them out of his inventory. In Unlimited Blade Works Shirou beats him inside his reality marble in close range sword combat because of Gilgamesh's lack of experience, physical strength and speed. I'm not sure how they depict him in the anime but his stats in the VN are far from being the best.