[FreeThinkers]-Atheist, Agnostic and Non-Religious

[Deekle]

Welcome to the Free Thinker's thread. This thread's purpose is to share the knowledge of Science and Logic to all. There are some common rules that each poster must follow and understand before posting, they will be listed below.

This thread is to discuss what is Atheism or Agnosticism. The thread is to allow those who have questions or those who are confident in their belief to converse. We shall share scientific information, Atheist/Agnostic linked science(will explain in greater detail later) and just some good points on why science should dictate our lives.


Rules
1. Don't flame Religion or any sort of God, you may give evidence that supports this topic but do not pick fights.
2. People who are uneasy about this topic, I advise to you stay away, Skull or myself will make sure no debates are started. This thread is for the sharing of knowledge.
3. Do not insult each other depending on their status of belief ex. An Atheist making fun of an Agnostic because the Agnostic believes in a higher power.
4. Bring as much evidence, material you can to your post to make it meaningful and enlightening.
5. If you are religious, do not post here. I'm sorry but this is not your thread.
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Now, for this begging post I would like to explain what Atheism and what being Agnostic is.

An Atheist is one who rejects Theism or a Deity. An Atheist is one who lacks a belief. Atheist believe in only what can be proven.

An Agnostic is one who does not follow any religion or beliefs in a set god but believes in a higher power of some sort. Agnostics are usually in the middle between Theism and Atheism.
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Some Food for Thought-

Atheist and Agnostics use logic to solve their problems, they are usually void of controversy.

Science is the backbone of life itself. Science cannot prove everything, well at least not yet.

Evolution, a great topic which I look forward to discussing about, shows how Humans evolved from micro-bacteria into what we are today. We are always involving, some believe the next step of Human Evolution is Cybernetics.

The Big Bang, where all matter and life originated from, this phenomenon is a widely accepted theory that the universe was created from compact matter that suddenly exploded. There is much evidence for this but some things we still do not understand.
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Last I would like to show you a video showing some fighting points for Atheism and Agnostics.

You Tube

Atheists and Agnostics are usually the least trusted minority in any country. Here in the United States they are the lowest of the low. President Bush even called them "Un-Patriotic." I assure you, generalization of people is where people usually go wrong, second is assuming and not looking into another one's life. Atheists and Agnostics are normal people, who do normal things.
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1.

Spoiler

Welcome to the thread and I hope you enjoyed some of the information I could share with you. Feel free to post your thoughts and more!

[stints]

Talking about the big bang, not that any parts that I will explain in a bit have been scientifically proven or talked about, at least not publicly, is that black holes can swallow up others. For the longest time, it was thought that black holes were either super massive or tiny. Now, http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/23924, we have evidence of these types. Meaning that they can in fact grow larger. Where I'm going is that eventually black holes may in fact (again, hugely speculative) swallow up all matter and join to create one massive black hole which would have a singularity of all matter and energy... you can see where I'm going with this. Of course, they bleed off radiation so the idea could very well be wrong but yeah. Its fun to think :D

Going with American atheists, we can't even be voted into office in many levels of government around the nation. It is actually written in their state constitutions that one must believe in SOMETHING to be voted. I'm sure one could argue that you believe in science but, sigh, it would be throw away by the courts.

Also, atheism is NOT a religion. We are not an organized institution. Like Deekle said, we simply believe in facts that can be proved thru the scientific method.

[Deekle]

I was wondering, do all presidents have to say "So help me God" when they get elected? George Washington started it, but he was a very secular guy.

[skullreken]

I'm leaving my religion at the door here and joining the discussion I suppose I would fall into the agnostic category while I'm here. my argument may initially look religious but bare with me it's not it's actually secular. I'm one of the many free thinking people out their who follows a religion we just tend to keep quiet and not shove our beliefs into other peoples faces the fact that our fundamental/extremist counter parts do most of the talking would lead you to believe that we are few and far between.

I'm not an expert on American politics or the American constitution but from what I have read on the matter it is not something that has to be done it is a personal choice. The President makes a formal request to the chief justice if he wishes to say "so help me god" and he adds it to the oath at his discretion.

In the defence of the act I'll say this.
1. We all have the freedom to believe what we want to believe and to not have other peoples beliefs forced upon us so by stopping someone from saying it optionally we are denying them their rights and a person who believes in God asking for help in doing the best for the people he or she has been chosen to lead isn't really forcing beliefs on others is it?
2. It's politically shrewd there are right wing elements in politics who would use the absence of those 4 words to weaken and destabilize the government and unfortunately those same right wing elements exist among the voters and they can their vote to put you out of office hell they used their vote to put Ronald Regan in power on the back of religious based question in one of the presidential debates
Q. "What would you say to God when you meet him?" A. "Forgive me"
If people can be easily lead by an answer like that it would be worth your while to just say those 4 words it may save your career.
3. You can just make a lip service and say it with out meaning it although I will even admit this is a really weak argument. Maybe an atheist could say so help me founding fathers it is perfectly legitimate to say I believe in my country it's constitution and what it's founders stood for.

My own opinion on the matter is this; A governments should be completely secular it should have no specific references in it's documentation currency of buildings to any specific religion with the exception to laws that ensure the freedom of people's rights in relation to religion. A government is supposed to be elected by the people to serve the people and by people I mean all of it's people regardless of ethnicity or religion. It cannot truly do so if it is being influenced by a religion. A case in point, contraception was illegal in Ireland until the end of the 80's because of the power the Catholic church held in socioty at the time just think of the social and health problems that could and probably did cause I don't have any statistics from the era but common sense makes it a no brainer.

The other thing is that as a member or parliament, state, senate, depending on the system you follow it is your duty to be secular in your actions, yes you can use your religion for moral guidance in helping you to make the right decision but you have to think is this the right decision for the benefit all the people in my country or is it for the benefit of my religion and it's followers? If you make a decision that only benefits your religion and it's followers while leaving everyone else including members of your own religion whit different views to the preachers subjected to something they don't think is right like not being allowed contraception or being forced to wear certain items of clothing etc then you have failed in your duty to serve all of your people and have no business in government. Religion is a personal matter so people should be given the right to choose if they what to have safe sex and use family planning let them have contraception if they think using contraception is wrong nobody is going to force them to use it but the option to do so if they change their minds will be there

[zoidmagnite]

Wow, stints! Right out of the box and swinging hard with the god dismissal thing.

Science is the path toward understanding in my mind. It helps to explain and to understand how things in the universe behave, at least as to what is around us. The thing that I appreciate about many who are of the category that resists mysticism is that so many of us are well educated in religion.

You leave a rather large topic undefined here, Deekle. Spirituality. What is spirituality? There is school spirit, there is religious spirit, there is goal oriented spirit. So what is that, really? And can their be spirituality without religion?

Evolution. Technology. Definitions of life and self awareness. Can we really accept the possibility that we are born nothing more than blank CD's that are slowly accumulating data? That becoming an individual is nothing more than accepting and rejecting experiences which give us a reference of who we are as a human being? If so, and if we accept the theory that we began as bacteria in an organic field, then is it possible that a virus algorithm is the humble beginnings of cybernetic life amidst an ocean of metals, and silica? Yes it is true that if you remove the electrical power that you remove the algorithm life, just as it is a fact that if you remove the air then you remove much of the human life.

How interesting the world will be 100,000 years from now...

[Deekle]

@ Zoid,I don't believe in a spirit. To me, my brain is what is me. I have no unique "spirit."

@Skull, Governments should be totally secular. I kind of find it really funny that the trip Mr. Obama took to the Vatican was not covered fully by the United State's Press. Michael Jackson is still the main topic.

People should really only think by Logic. Logic should dictate your life. People who say "What would Jesus do" or even "What would MJ do" that should be replaced with "What is logical?"

[stints]

Yeah, if anything, one could equate spirit to willpower, if you want to go that route. But like Deekle said, I too don't believe in a spirit or soul.

Also, it would be so fantastic if the government would in fact be secular but we have a religious group that is hellbent on trying to tie christianity with the founding fathers.

Deekle, I disagree, being logical is great, don't get me wrong, but, I do not wish our species to become like Vulcans. Emotions are still needed, they give us passions, interests, lives. One must be capable of having both a logical mind while rationally thinking with their emotions, though not in excess. Not sure if that made any sense :/

[Flameo]

I agree with Stints on the whole logic thing there.

As humans emotions are still extremely important to us.
Even though thinking logically is indeed great, it shouldn't always be completely used for making decisions, for example.

Depending on how important the decision is though, of course.

[stints]

No, logic should always be used in making decisions but you shouldn't dismiss emotions as well.

[Flameo]

That's what I meant when I said " shouldn't always be used completely".

Meaning, both should be taken into account, not just the one.
Although I know, the way I stated it was pretty vague.